Does anyone out there own a 'splash' colored Labrador. In case you do not know what a 'splash' is , it is a Yellow Labrador with big black spots that look as if black paint was splash on them. If you have one or know of someone who has one that I could speak with could you please email me privately. I would appreciate it.
Thank you
Judy Heim
HySpire Labradors

You can also have a black splash. A muddy color or some times golden.

Judy, have you even looked at the Woodhaven site where she has all the mismarks and splash pups. Very nice link to save for research. She may know of breeders that would not mind giving experience. I have seen splash and black and tans. The splash were not yellow.

The coloration you are describing of a yellow coated dog with large black patches is the result of two embrionic masses fusing together. This is called a chimera or a mosiac. Basically two separate early embryos merge together forming one organism with the DNA of each intertwining and sometimes remaining separate. This happens with people as well as dogs and sometimes the person has one blue eye and one brown eye. The chimera Labrador has a coat pattern that shows the two separate DNA codes for yellow and for black. Breeding the chimera would result in a different scenario depending on the indivudual's DNA at the sex chromosomes but they won't reproduce themselves nor would chimeras run in certain lines - the odds of the two embryos fusing are very low.

Years ago I heard of a dog named Camouflage who was a yellow dog with large black spots and stripes. He was from a well known field kennel here in the northeast - CT or MA I think. He was bred and produced like a black carrying yellow and never threw any puppies that looked like him. I suspect he was a chimera.

I remember a European dog with huge mosiac patterns - they called him appropriately "Spot". I have a photo saved of him if anyone would like. I don't remember his website or the breeder.

Judy if you would like to email me for it privately my address is:
wigwags@comcast.net

Sharon - that was a very interesting explanation, most informative. Many of us were wondering what was "behind" Spot's splashes and it's the first attempt I've actually read at an explanation. Thanks.

My stud dog produced a black with chocolate splashing on it's legs, would this be at all helpful?

Actually I have seen several Splash puppies but I was looking for one because I, after reading an article shown to me by Lisa about brindle thoroughbreds, immediately thought of splash pups and decided they must also be chimeras. These brindle horses were dna tested and it was found that the two different colored hairs were of different dna. I was looking for a splash puppy so I could have that same test done on one. However from what you are saying it sounds as if someone has already done the test and if so I assume it was written up somewhere for you to have seen it. Do you know where I could find the article? If there is such an article it should be published in the Quarterly or one of the other magazines because I can tell you that everyone who emailed me privately that they knew of or owned a splash puppy immediately started talking about the lines it came from indicating that everyone is under the assumption it is hereditary. This would be important news to have out there.
However many people also wrote me and what they described that they had was not a splash puppy but a brindle. I have been told that brindling is a recessive gene and must be carried by both parents and I suspect that is true since it is a normal color to see in many breeds and also because I owned a dog many many years ago who produced it and I found out the mother of the bitch he was bred to had also produced it, and then his grandaughter produced it. So that is not a controlled test but does seem to indicate something.
Also there are some other color variations we see such a hailstorm puppies, blacks with large round white spots and silver pups that are blacks tipped with white hair and that usually goes away. It would be intersting to see if some of these other mismarks are also chimeras.
Let us all know if there is an article and if actual testing was done on the two color hairs on a splash labrador.
Judy

I bred a chocolate bitch and had 2 pups in the litter with gold splashing on their legs/chest area. Has someone seen that before??? Sharon Loved the information posted, very informative!!!

"I bred a chocolate bitch and had 2 pups in the litter with gold splashing on their legs/chest area. Has someone seen that before???"

Yes this is the result of the black and tan gene which is a gene carried by some of our Labradors and when two parents both are carriers then black and tan pups will arise (1 in 4).

The black and tan points are tan markings on the legs, chest, above the eyes, muzzle, and rear under the tail. It's quite obvious on a black. On a chocolate the tan points are harder to see but it's the same coat coloration.

Also brindling is a gene that is carried by some dogs. Both black and tan and brindling is very rare but documented in our breed. Those sets of genes go back to the origins of the breed or shortly thereafter. When two individuals with normal coat coloration who are carriers are bred together then the pups can exhibit the nonstandard phenotype and again in 1 out of 4 puppies.

Black and tan and brindling can be carried by blacks, chocolates, and yellows.

Where frosted silver pups are concerned, not the silver that remains in adulthood, here is an interesting reply on the subject that I received from Pam Davol: "Mary Roslin-Williams and Helen Warwick both described this oddity in pups that later changed to a true black coat. These temporary conditions of silver or “frosting” as they are sometimes called are not due to the same genetic factors that cause the blue or silver phenotypes in Labs. The “frosting” condition may be associated with temporary nutritional or metabolic deficiencies (particularly copper). It has also been associated with certain fungal conditions (which inhibit endogenous tyrosinase) in livestock and domestic animals and for which occurrence increases during certain years at cyclic intervals. In contrast, TYRP2 effects would result in permanent and uniform color dilution."

Frosted Silver pups are from a Zinc deficiency and will turn black when the adult coat comes in.

i,m not sure if this will assit you but if you look at this link regarding the dalmatian breed and the coats variations from spots of lemon color/orange/no spots/blue spots/tri colors/brindles

http://www.geocities.com/paisleydals/color.html

also

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/ColorGen.html

Sharon, wow, what info!!

May I trouble you to explain a little more?? Both parents in my case were full C's, no recessive color. I was just a little confused about the black and tan. The Bitch who was C, her dam was B/c her sire was C. Sire of my pups was also full C, BOTH his sire and dam were C.

TIA, very appreciated, very interesting. If it's too much I would be happy to e mail, just so interested in this.

Since I suspect this question got lost in the cracks- I ask again to Sharon ...is there documentation of a dna test done on a splash Labrador. Like I said earlier - this is the reason I was looking for one as I would like to see that test done and see what the results are but if it is already documented this needs to be in the quarterly. There was a wonderful article on the brindle thoroughbreds that were chimeras with great photos of the horses.

Also kind of interesting that several are saying the silver frosting on some pups that goes away with adult coat is a zinc deficiency. I knew a black bitch that had one of those silver tipped pups in every single litter- but only one. The lady would sell that pup with a written guarantee that if the pup wasn't solid black by the time it reached a year of age she would return their purchase price and let them keep the puppy. They, of course, always did. So does that mean that she had one puppy in every litter that had a zinc deficiency??
Judy

Not Sharon, but I can explain...

There are 4 genes at work to produce a chocolate tanpoint.

You have K/k, where a KK or Kk dog is black or chocolate; and kk is "otherwise."
There is then the B/b, where a BB or Bb is black and bb is chocolate. All Labs (actually all DOGS) are either black or chocolate.
Then, if your dog is kk, it will have a "coating" of another color over that black or chocolate base. If that dog is kkee, it will have yellow over that base and you will have either a normally pigmented yellow, or a chocolate pigmented yellow.

However, there is a FOURTH loci that is put into place when you have a kkEE or kkEe--where the A locus can come into play. On the A locus, you have ay, which is sable (goes into that thread about sable and fox red) which is the dominant color at that locus. Then you have at, which is tanpoint.

So your chocolate tanpoints are:
a(t)a(t)bbE*kk
Meaning that each of your chocolate parents must carry a gene for kk, but also one must carry E.

Tanpoint would be then recessive to solid chocolate, but not directly, through several different layers of color coding.

LOL I understood DNA really well having to do with coat colors, even taught a few folks........UNTIL NOW!!!

lol

Thank you, I need to study this

FYI, there's another question below from Judy.... didnt mean to hi-jack the thread

Judy I do not believe that a test has been performed although I will look into finding that webpage for that flashy splashed puppy in Europe since they may have done some DNA mapping for parentage.

I will also contact the foremost researcher on canine coat color genetics - Dr. Shelia Schmutz of the University of Saskachewan.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html#links

Think Spot was Italian and on the website, there was a story of him being taken to a specialty over there for the judge to see. He was certainly a fine looking dog and his type good. His colouring was interesting.

We rescued an intact, AKC reg. black male with wonderful lines, temperament and confirmation years ago.

However, he had choc. splashing on his front legs.

This was 20+ years ago and no testing that we knew of - but we were afraid he would throw it to his offspring so we neutered him.

Interesting to read all this info now.

I actually saved that website with the yellow boy in Europe with the black splashes. Hope this helps.

http://xoomer.alice.it/matesser/spott.htm

The pictures are amazing.

WTO newbie!