I have been really upset lately by labrador "kennels" on the web that breed their labs under the age of 1, do no health screening and " now come with full AKC registration".

I know its a never ending battle, and its always going to be an evil that is there, but what can we do to fight it? I feel so helpless and I see everyone in this community working their rears off to prevent health issues and better they breed, all to be destroyed by these BYB. I feel like there should be someone to report these websites to. Unfortunately I do not think people get their wrist slapped by not getting health clearances and for breeding bitches and dogs under 1 year old by the AKC or local government. And I know, education is key, but these people have been educated and told, and it continues.

Um, it is not against the law. You can simply help educate the pet buying public that these are not responsible individuals, but as they say a sucker is born everyday.

Education! and... Work with people who cannot afford a high priced, but well bred dog. Take payments or do whatever you can to work with them. Take the time to be nice and really educate them! There will always be a market for these dogs because a poorer person still want a purebred dog as a pet but cannot afford to pay the top prices for a family pet. So the back yard and commercial breeder have a huge niche. When someone comes on this forum and says how they don't want to sell a dog to some person and how they got nasty and turned them away; where do you think that person will get their dog from? It's America and people still have the freedom to buy whatever dog they want and pay whatever they can afford. Private hobby breeders will NEVER meet the market demand for purebred puppies! YOu could even compte with the BYBs by lowering your prices but I don't see that happening. Think about it.

Here's an idea I had a while back...

You have to ask yourself, how do these BYB's sell their pups? The answer, local ads in papers and in pet stores. A LOT of people look at the puppy ads in papers, even if they aren't serious about buying, they still look--the people that look in the paper to buy their dogs are just the people that need this education. So, you place a "fake" ad that gets their attention and educats at the same time. Place an add something like this:

PUPPIES! Cute, lovable, home raised pups ready to go. Good pets, great for kids, mom on site. Must see!

Then at the end of the ad, you have two choices.

1) put your phone number, but ONLY if you are willing to talk to these people and use it as an opprotunity to educate them about the people that place ads just like these everyday.

2) do not list a number, but instead list a web address. This address will take them to YOUR webpage, that you made just for this ad--not your usual website that shows off your dogs. Then, the webpage educates those who respond, about people who place ads like these. It should include things like the difference between BYB's and hobby breeders, and why the cheaper pet isn't always a bargin because of the problems that could come with them vs paying for a quality dog that comes with a guarantee etc.

You can also place local ads like this one:

PUPPIES! Quality pet store pups need homes. Many breeders to choose from, prices reduced, 30 day guarantee! Must See!

Then again, you include a web address that takes them to a page that maybe lists the 10 reasons NOT to buy from a pet shop, etc.

To place these ads in local papers on a weekly basis isn't free, but with the help of our local breed clubs, we can raise money to place these ads.

Just my thoughts.

"YOu could even compte with the BYBs by lowering your prices but I don't see that happening."

But Gina dont you think their prices are low to begin with because they are not doing hips, elbows, CERF, Optigen, timing, stud costs, and raising a litter in the best nurturing and stimulating environment. They are not competing with their dogs in any venue. And I agree, maybe there are those few cases that a person can afford vet costs but dont have a lump sum of say $1500 in one shot and maybe can give you split payments or you give a lower cost to help a family out.

I know that its not against the law to just slap any two dogs together, I guess I just wonder how everyone else 'gets over it' so they dont get all upset and discouraged.

interesting idea Help, that is one way to address it

I do think the idea has merit and will for sure help educate a lot of people, but it's true that there will always be BYB's. Not everyone will see things the way we do.

As long as we understand that, there's no reason why we shouldn't still do what we can where we can, instead of saying the hell with it.

You can kind of think of it the same way as how we breed. We always strive for the perfect Lab, all the time knowing that we will never acheive it. Well, the same is true with the struggle against BYB's. We know they will always exisit and their will always be a market for them, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to educate those who might want to opt for a hobby breeder over a BYB, given all the information, the next time they're in the market for a new pup.


"Let's do what we can do, rather than worry about what we can't do."

I tried giving someone a break and they were to send me payments then I would send them the puppy reg., well guess what that was for about 2 months payment and they never paid anything after that. I didn't persue it and got about $350.00 for the puppy and I was stuck holding the puppy reg.? I didn't take them to small claims court, it wasn't worth it and these people were both teachers in a different state. So, no I would be very careful how you handle that type of payment for a puppy.

A better way to handle payments, IF, anyone wanted to, is to take payments for a pup that isn't ready yet and once they have paid in full, then they can have a pup from the next available litter. But, most who ask for a payment plan, prob wouldn't wait that long for their pup, but if I were ever asked to accept payments, that's how I would handle it.

I take credit cards via PayPal instead of doing a payment plan. If they haven't got enough credit to do that, then they probably aren't a good risk for me either...

Good ideas about newspaper ads.

"I know that its not against the law to just slap any two dogs together, I guess I just wonder how everyone else 'gets over it' so they dont get all upset and discouraged. "

My life's philosophy is "to each their own." So it's very easy for me to "get over" BYB's. If anyone asks why I choose to live my life or believe the things that I do, I'm more than happy to share. But I feel that the thing that makes the US great--the "soul" of the country so to speak--is the freedom to do and feel as we choose, so long as it hurts no one else. And IMO the "hurt" a family gets from buying a puppy that isn't well-bred is balanced by that family's CHOICE to not do their research or not to spend their money in a way I personally feel is "wise."

It makes it a heck of a lot easier for me to not stress out over the little stuff, and it also involves the belief in some sort of "karma" as well.

Diveristy and freedom of choice is what makes our country great. And it is the buyer's choice where to buy, BUT, sometimes they simply didn't know about all their choices. A lot of people come to me after buying from a BYB, saying they made a mistake, they didn't know better then, and they learned their lesson the hard way. So, while it's true that BYB's aren't breaking the law and it is the buyer's choice where to get their pups, it's also true that with more education, a lot of people would choose hobby breeders over BYB's, if only they knew better.

And, I personaly feel that the dogs of BYB's are being hurt. Maybe they aren't beaten or neglected, as most are family pets, but others are just kennel dogs and that's not right. The dogs that are bred too young are hurt, and the dogs who have HD are hurt when they carry the extra weight of their litters. And any dog that does not have the regular human interaction of a loving family is missing out. So I personaly do not believe that is only the buyer who gets hurt. Plus a lot of people who pay little to nothing for their pets also buy more on impulse and those who do that often forget about their pets or lose interest in them. Then again, the dog is the one who gets hurt.

Hi all
Good thread, lots to think about and consider carefully. I have alot of pictures of my "kids" around my desk at work and I show off new pictures to "critter friends" and answer any questions they have about them. I was surprised as time went on, how many other people(not in my department) would come in and ask to see the pics and ask questions about my dogs. Terrific opportunity to educate in many areas, health, cost, training, vet care and the differences between what most people see on the street as a Lab and the pictures I am showing them.It seems to have made some impact....more of the "critter friends" at work are researching before looking for a new companion. I think that's a step in the right direction.
Lisa and Crew

I think that is a good ad but in reality and speaking only from personal experience; the dogs that I've had in my life from BYB's have been just as healthy if not healthier than than those that I've paid over 1k for. I've dealt with more issues, allergy, eic, hip/elbows not passing on my quality dogs. That might make for a good discussion. I wonder how many have had their initial pets from BYB's bb healthier/less healthy than their quality purchases.

Oh lets see.....my first Labrador was from a Pet store - many, many years ago when I was young and stupid

He had skin problems, he grew up terrible looking (for his breed) he always 'paced' when walking (not correct gait) he always was picky eating and stayed very thin and.......he had EPILEPSY!

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Replying to:

I think that is a good ad but in reality and speaking only from personal experience; the dogs that I've had in my life from BYB's have been just as healthy if not healthier than than those that I've paid over 1k for. I've dealt with more issues, allergy, eic, hip/elbows not passing on my quality dogs. That might make for a good discussion. I wonder how many have had their initial pets from BYB's bb healthier/less healthy than their quality purchases.

NONE of our BYB dogs were healthy, we went through three over my life and if it wasn't health it was HORRIBLE temperament.

It's true. You can get a great pet from a BYB. I have. However, we never did any health clearances on her, but she did live to be 14 1/2, and was the best dog ever. That said, I do believe that you chances or odds of getting a healthier, or more tempermentaly sound dog are greater AND back up with a guarantee when purchsed from most hobby breeders. At least when something does go wrong with you pet, your breeder can help, but not the case with a BYB. Just my opinion.