In evaluating a litter at 7-8 weeks ( after carefully observing day after day ) and not having one that jumps out at you every time - What do you do, other than asking for more "hands on" picks from others. Does one aspect carry more weight in your decision than another? Head, expression, bone?? They are all relatively well balanced... If you're trying to correct one attribute, do you use that as the defining cut? suggestions appreciated!!!

This is a hard one. Are you brave enough to post pictures and let the forum see? You could remain anonymous... Could be some interesting points of view if everyone would be well- mannered.

The first thing I look for is balance on a pup (I see too many labs that are front heavy or have straight fronts and good rears and visa versa, I then look for the one that will go four square on it's own alot of the time when running around the yard. I will forgive heads but not fronts or rears and I want both nicely angulated. Don't like dippy toplines or overdone dogs, I like them with substance but a lab should not be built like a bulldog with that much substance. I also don't like when they are too short coupled as if the dog doesn't have some lenght to the body then they can't move well at all. Don't like them long either but just right. Good luck... don't go for what you were trying to fix in the breeding go for the best structured one and if your not too good on evaluating structure yourself invite someone over who is.

If one doesn't stand out and none are better than their dam - sell them all.

How many puppies are in your litter you are trying to evaluate ?

It seems like there is always 1 or 2 puppies in our litters that stand out from the time they are 5 weeks old on. They have a presence about them as if they know they are the special one. I love watching them out in the yard playing, running at this age. Sometimes with all the bunny hopping they do at 5 weeks old it's difficult to gaige a puppy gait but if you are out in the yard long enough, you can catch them running in a nice gait and then they stop, setting themselves in that perfect show pose. Of course you don't have your camera right there at that very moment.

If you were hoping to improve on 1 or 2 things in your litter and you got one improvement but you lost in another area or more, I'm not so sure I would keep that puppy. It depends on what I lost in.

Overall Balance and improvement in some area would be ideal to keep a puppy.

If you don't trust your eye and objectivity, I would sure find some experienced breeders to help you go over your litter. Good luck to you !!

I don't think faults will change much. If you see something you don't like, let it go. If they all
look equal I would go on head bone, and substance. I wish we could tell the final outcome at 8 wks. It would save a ton of time and expense. Just doesn't seem to work that way!
I usually run on 2 or 3.

Good grief, one doesn't have to stand out if you are breeding litters that are consistant in how they turn out, that is what I strive for is to get several puppies in a litter that will be nice and show quality, they also don't have to be better than their dam if the dam is of good quality... haven't you seen kennels where they have one nice dog after another and they all look alike and are all good dogs?
Aloha,
jackie

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

If one doesn't stand out and none are better than their dam - sell them all.

I have always heard try to keep something better than what you have, also. I would ask some friends over or take the pups to someone close by you trust. We do get kennel blind. But we do all like something a little different in our Labs. It is so hard sometimes, good luck, let us know which way you ended up going.

I found for a few litters that by focusing on the 1 or 2 that stood out, I sometimes missed other qualities. I started my own little system, something like the puppy puzzle, but just my own chart, rating each pup out of 10 on certain things, head, eyes, feet, bone, front angles, rear angles, tail, tailset, etc.... and then temperament and other comments. I then add up the total score, and sometimes am surprised on who rates well overall. Mind you, this may or may not seal my decision, but it helps me keep an eye on the things I don't want to overlook. I do this for the last 2 or 3 weeks and I really find I am not as apt to overlook someone. I have one of those red mechanic's chests on wheels, with rubber matting on top, (in it are all my puppy meds and supplies, it locks so momma can't get in there when no one's looking, and being metal, no one chews it.) I have a mirror hanging right over it. I start them young, so that they are used to going there, the first time it's hard to evaluate them because they're a bit nervous but after a time or two, it's "pick me, pick me!" A little nibble of their kibble or other such treat really helps too.

The one thing I have really come to believe, in watching my own pups grow and seeing one's I placed later, they sure don't gain angles later in life, especially rear angles, in fact, they often lose them as they grow. I'm really mindful of that issue these days.

I recently had a litter with 7 males to choose from. The well known, 30 year breeder, who owns the sire came to have a look and I said nothing to her. She narrowed down 2 pups, (my top two) and then in the end chose the very boy who was my pick too. So it seems we were both looking for the same qualities.

Good luck in choosing your special pup, it's never easy.

Host a puppy party and invite others over to help you made the decision. Also, let your mentor see your pups and help in the decision.
If you belong to any lab forums, perhaps post some photos of the litter and ask for constructive input from the members.

I did this for the first time a couple of litters ago and I'm sold on the idea now.

Have a friend/mentor, or two, assist you...be sure that at least one of them is accomplished at stacking 7-8 week old puppies (NOT an easy task!).

Set up two grooming tables approximately 5-6 ft. apart, one with a digital camera on it (set up on some books), the other for setting up puppies.

Take (at least) two pictures of each puppy to get a GOOD side stack view and a second to get a good front view, either sitting or standing. Then, by printing out the pictures in such a way as to get a side view and a front view of each puppy on ONE photo sheet (standard snap shot size), you can put the whole litter on a corkboard and compare as a group...not just what you see and remember from each puppy as you go over them individually. Couple this with what you see in movement and attitude and it can be a GREAT visual aid in selecting your top picks.

Good Luck!

Not that I've bred a litter yet, but what I'd do is assume they're really consistent, so nothing jumps out. Then, after I'd finished patting myself on the back , I'd enlist someone to help me decide whether to keep 'em all, or sell 'em all.

You have to remember though that pictures can be decieving and the pup might not look like he/she does in person.
Aloha,
Jackie

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

I did this for the first time a couple of litters ago and I'm sold on the idea now.

Have a friend/mentor, or two, assist you...be sure that at least one of them is accomplished at stacking 7-8 week old puppies (NOT an easy task!).

Set up two grooming tables approximately 5-6 ft. apart, one with a digital camera on it (set up on some books), the other for setting up puppies.

Take (at least) two pictures of each puppy to get a GOOD side stack view and a second to get a good front view, either sitting or standing. Then, by printing out the pictures in such a way as to get a side view and a front view of each puppy on ONE photo sheet (standard snap shot size), you can put the whole litter on a corkboard and compare as a group...not just what you see and remember from each puppy as you go over them individually. Couple this with what you see in movement and attitude and it can be a GREAT visual aid in selecting your top picks.

Good Luck!

Remember, Jackie, that I said that it could be an AID, not the final decision maker. It's just one more tool that a breeder might choose to use, along with observation, hands-on, and experience.

It is true that a quality litter should look iniform when you look at all the pups together. If the pups were all show quality though, wouldn't we all have a kennel and house full of champions alot quicker ?

For myself, I like to see my litters look uniform and overall nice quality in the "Pets" that go to nice homes but what I have seen in my bitch lines is that there is always at least 1-2 females and 1-2 males puppies that stand out as show quality in structure and in attitude.

Unfortunately, I can't keep all the show prospects so lucky for the families, they get some really nice quality show companions to raise as I typically don't sell to breeders and good show homes are hard to find for all of the nicer babies.

I asked the late Quentin LaHamm this same question when I had my first litter on the ground and was trying to decide between two bitches that were quite similar. He was giving a seminar on structure and movement which I was attending. He said, all things being equal with head, coat, tail and type, keep them both until about 12 weeks old. Watch them gait carefully, and time after time, the one that trots easily and effortlessly everywhere she goes is the one to keep. He felt structure really made itself known at about 12 weeks, and that trotting to cover ground was a sign of a structurally sound puppy. We've all seen them; those puppies that just take your breath away trotting off in the puppy yard with head up and an effortless gait! Proper structure equals proper movement, and that would be the tie-breaker for me!