Those of you that like to loudly rip apart dog's that win at a show/specialty when your dogs do not, please try to think who is around you while you mouth off. The owner of the dogs, or their breeders, or even their friends, could be within earshot. Please learn to take your loses with grace. After all, there have been times when your dogs beat dogs that are better than yours. It is a good thing that the same dogs and breeders do not win at every show, or there would not be dog shows. It is just rude and unkind to say those things publicly. If you want to grumble, do it privately. Take your loses, congratulate the winner's, and try again another day. Most exhibitors are kind, and keep their heads high. But, there are the few, one in particular, who always bitches when her dogs get dumped. I believe she uses sarcasm like, "sometime we need to sit down and figure out what happened in winner's dog", or winner's bitch, or best of breed, etc. Or, she storms out of the ring when another dog takes the points, and she does not, and makes nasty comments on the way out. I think the one I am talking about will recognize herself when she reads this post. If so, please take it to heart. You are very hurtful, and to people who have never done a thing to make you mad. Try to get a little class, because your attitude is very unbecoming.

I am troubled by this kind of post. It makes me uncomfortable to read another person "dressed down" in public. It is more useful and often works better if one uses positive statements rather than negative and address the person directly not over the internet. Use "I" statements such as "It makes me feel _____ when you _________. I think it is more effective when we take responsibility for our own behavior and not try to modify the behavior of others with an anonomous public outing. "I was right behind you" did you speak directly to the person you are writing about here and tell her how you feel? Sometimes people are what they are and our best defense is to cultivate a strong inner self.

I think this is the perfect place to address this behavior. No names were mentioned. Only the people who were in the immediate area will recognize who behaved in such childish manner.

This person who will remain nameless has done it for years and is thoughtless about other's feelings but don't expect a change any time soon it's been going on for years

The AKC is supposed to be getting on the Bad Sportsmanship thing. As much as I would like to bite my tongue off at times with the dogs that win and judges just looking at handlers and breeders and not the dogs, I have forced myself to smile and say "Nice Win", or Congradulations and save my snide remarks when I get back to the van. These loud remarks in the ring or going out of the ring are uncalled for and should be addressed immedatley! Maybe the person saying them will quit and get the idea that her thougts should be kept to herself or himself whatever the case may be.
I had gone to Pat Hastings seminars and she said, that for every bad thing you say about a dog, there should be at least 2 or 3 things that are good that you should say!! So, if someone makes negative comments tell them you want to hear the good things about the dog! That might shut them up!

I always thought showing dogs was a sport and good sportsmanship was included. I, for one, am getting tired of the bad attitudes from some of the exhibitors. It IS a problem that needs to be addressed.

Darcy you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. As long as no names are mentioned, I feel this is a very relavent topic to be discussed on this forum, and if you are uncomfortable reading this topic then DON'T. I do not advocate nameing names but I don't feel we need to tiptoe around those that continue to be poor sports. Their victims are embarrassed and made to feel miserable by these bitter PUBLIC remarks. These poor sports leave little doubt to whom they are referring. A public discussion of such inappropriate behavior, without mentioning specific names, seems more than fair to me. Actually, these poor sports are given more courtesy than they ever extend their victims.

Your right, this is a good topic and there can be a solution that can stop this type of behavior in and outside the ring. The best thing would be too call the AKC rep and let them know and let the AKC rep know that you want to see them inforce the "new" Good Sportmanship" that they are so earnestly tying to inact! You can even copy this off the AKC website and carry it with you, there are listings as to what this includes. Let the AKC deal with it and see what happens? Just a thought, but there is nothing wrong with calling the AKC rep. or even taking it too the Show Committee!
This happens more and more, only because people get away with it too often, that includes the prof. handlers too!

Go to the ring steward or superintendent and make a complaint right at the show.

I was in the ring and I was 3rd and this person was 2nd and they said Very loudly while still in the line up..."well, at least I beat him"! I cringed and everyone looked right at me and she was talking and laughing with her buds sitting outside the ring but real close.

It is called arrested development. These people's development was stunted for some reason or other. They behaved this way in junior high school, amid their buddies who encouraged it. And because they were allowed to get away with it then their personalities have never progressed past childish, thoughtless, mean spirited and inconsiderate behaviors. They absolutely should be reported and hopefully enough negative santions against them could change them.

Wow, how rude! That is really awful and sad!!! Next time call the AKC rep.! Comments like that don't belong in the ring. Did the Judge hear it???

I agree this is the perfect place to openly discuss this WITHOUT using names. As a newbie I had a dog win just a class, nothing more, and a person stormed out of the ring saying "did you see who won that class?" I was so upset, and so hurt and did not go back. I was not even by the ring entrance and I heard it a few chairs away. NO, I was not showing my dogs and I'm glad because it was hard enough hearing that with a handler doing it.

I have seen other threads on this forum encouraging newbies such as myself to get out there and show. How in the world can we ever feel as if we can contribute or have a chance when things like this continue to happen. I also know others heard that have been in this for years, I wish they, too, would step up to the plate and say something to this person and people when it happens. It's so hurtful!!!

In my experience it has been the people who win the most that are the nastiest when they lose. You would think that just for once somebody else could win and be able to enjoy that sensation just for a while? I have had similar sarcastic comments on one of my rare wins and it sure takes the shine off what should be a great feeling. I also think that the people who have shot straight to the top with a great dog from their novice days are the worst of the lot because they have never learnt what it feels like to lose nearly every time they go in the ring. It's supposed to be a fun day out isn't it?

I think people get a attitude when they win all the time instead of being humble! Actually the lab ring has wonderful people and we usually have a wonderful time, but there are those that can make things really bad for the rest of us. Yes, we are there too win and maybe all of us that are there too have fun which it should be. We should try and keep a good attitude going even if there are people bad mouthing our dogs or whatever at ringside. Be objective that we love "our" dogs and we are there to show "our dogs" if they like them or not. It is up to the judge to judge our dogs not the other people there!
As for the newbies people that are making these comments probably have forgotten how they got into the show ring?

Reply to post, is this the same person storming out of the ring? Maybe we should all rename this person "Stomin Norman"?? Let put a little humor in this, it makes the pain go away!

I am glad you brought this out into the open and this is just the place to do it - without naming names. I have shown dogs for some 45 years and have seen it all - I just hope that those who are guity of the nastiness recognize themselves and see how hurtful it is. I get furious when I see a new person all thrilled with their dog get slammed by an "oldie" there is just no reason for it. Remember the saying to be nice to the people you pass on the way up as you will surely meet them on your way down.
Also for those of you who lose - PLEASE don't abuse your dog with a hard jerk or harsh words - they don't ask for this nonsense and deserve beter of us and YES I know who you are and have seen your small warped heart.

As I expressed an experience (experience once, seen it a few times) I'd like to say to the posters who have mentioned the wonderful people also included in this sport, you're right!! There are many of you that have years in this and are gracious and wonderful. To all of you THANK YOU

One of the posts sounds very much like something that happened very recently. Perhaps it is not the same event, but just in case here is what happened: A well respected breeder had two dogs entered in the same class. These were both very nice dogs and the handler the breeder used was going to handle one of the dogs. I was asked to handle the other one. I was joking with the handler of the dog that I was going to beat him in the ring. (The handler is a much better handler than me - so it was all in fun) However, it ended up that I got 2nd and the handler came in 4th. We were joking about me beating the handler (again, the two dogs involved belonged and were bred by the same breeder). The breeder was very happy with her placements and we were all laughing. I guess in looking back,someone may have mistaken what happened. We certainly were not putting down anyone elses dogs.

if you were asking if that was what I was referring to, not even close.

If you were not referring to what I said, oooops

The procedure to make a complaint is to get witnesses, get the name of the person, and get the show chairman. It's a good idea to tell the person you are complaining about that you are calling the show chairman. You can use the steward to call on the radio. Tell the show chairman the situation. If the show chairman decides, he or she can call a bench committee. The AKC rep is only there to observe. The superintendant is there to physically run the show. The show chairman is the one who is responsible for the whole thing.

A few calls on bad sportsmanship ringside would cure a few of the worst offenders and deter other would-be bad sports.

I think complaining here is preaching to the converted.

I was referring to "I was there too". The placements were the same and when I read your post I could see how someone may have gotten the wrong impression. It is possible that what you posted about has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I just find it hard to believe that someone could be that cruel intentionally.

I disagree, many who read this forum are the very ones who need to be converted.

I agree and also, there weren't any people mentioned and we don't know were or what show this was? This is a good subject because someone was hurt by our fellow lab lovers and this type of behavior can be corrected and it does need to be out in the open. If it affected one person, then it affects all of us!
If you hadn't posted the proper protical on how to file a complaint, some of these people would not know how to handle the situation.

I like to look at bad behavior in the ring in another way. It makes it much easier for those of us that are decent human beings to know who to stay away from! Ignore them, and think twice about the people condone the behavior and pal around with them. Don't use their dogs, don't send puppy people to them. Let them stew in their own kettle. There are too many nice people and nice dogs to waste time with rude people. Life is short....

I agree with you 100%, kind of like "Birds of a feather flock together".

Well it is obvious that there are many of you out there that are tired of feeling bullied. Have any of you actually spoken to the person you were unhappy with? It is a proven fact that speaking directlyto the person you are unhappy with is effective. I'm wondering if many of you feel intimidated by these bullies. I'm also thinking that most of you won't use the afore mentioned AKC grievance process if you have to be identified. So out of frustration you come to an anonomous forum to out someone who probably won't identify herself or will blow you off because you are anonomous. Next time tell her how her behavior makes you feel face to face. Give your bully a chance to feel some empathy, it works.

People are mean! Once while sitting ringside I was really bowled over by a few ladies who were critiquing handlers and dogs. We have a well known and well respected judge who in the ring showing his own dog and he suffers from what appears to be a bad knee and has to walk most of the time. These ladies actually stood up and imitated his walk and the way of handing his dog in the ring that day. I spoke up and said I admire him for being in the ring with bad legs. They just got stupid looks on their face and whispered like I was nuts or should I say stupider faces?
So to answer your question ..YES…people can and are blatantly mean!

Yes, birds of a feather really do flock together so I flew that coop right quick!

Playing devil's advocate here, but why didn't you say something back?

It doesn't have to be meanspirited, but VERY often a simple, "Excuse me, but I'm standing right here?" every time someone tries a game like this gets them to leave you alone, because you're neither getting involved in a battle, nor are you retreating and letting them walk on you.

It's not fair to expect someone to behave perfect if no one ever confronts them directly at the moment the incident happens, and too many people are afraid of making waves to address poor behavior directly.

There's a book called "How to Deal With People You Can't Stand" and it has lots of strategies for dealing with people in general, it's aimed at the workplace but I've found it extremely effective with a very belligerant co-worker.

I respectfully disagree with you Darcy most bullies get defensive they don’t have the mental capacity to reason like normal people. In a perfect world maybe.

"I have seen other threads on this forum encouraging newbies such as myself to get out there and show. How in the world can we ever feel as if we can contribute or have a chance when things like this continue to happen."

I too am a newbie to showing and this type of behavior can be so discouraging, not to mention a turn off to the whole dog show world.

However, I was involved in showing horses for years and you deal with it there as well.

I have to say that the negativity of certain people is what makes me aprehensive about continuing to truly get involved in showing my dogs.

I was at the JSLRC show this friday helping out and I saw nothing but good sportsmanship.

I will continue to learn and move forward with showing despite the negative people I may encounter. But I have to say if I was standing right behind someone being so nasty and jeuvanile I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut and not putting that person in their place. Knowing me, I would have something to say to them.

Embarassment can often shut someone up and teach them a lesson quite quickly. Especially if others in the area here the person being put in their place.

And if that turns the tides against me in the "show croud" so be it.

I am doing this for myself and to make friends but I certainly have no desire to befriend unsportsman like people.

I was raised from a child to loose with grace in the horse show world and to win with grace as well and I will do the same in the dog show arena.

It helped make me the person I am today.

It is wonderful to win, but you can't always be at the top. Sometimes, its someone elses turn.

Just my 2 cents as a newbie.

I, too have been on the receiving end of very nasty things beging said about my dog. Like, why do I bother to show him. How he is such a terrible dog, etc. Same thing, people didn't realize that my friends were within ear shot. One reason I really don't like the breed ring. I have found I really don't trust most of the people around my area. Only about one or two that I can say is really nice to everyone. It is terrible. Whatever happened to that old saying--if you can't say something nice about someone (or their dog) then don't say anything at all.

One more quick thing--even had a big name handler ask the judge why she put up my dog and complained about it.

You mention someone directly questioning the judge's decision.

As a kid I have approached judges to ask them what I did wrong or what they didn't like about my horse, because I was encouraged to do that.

But I would never have asked why they placed others above me. Very unsportmanship like.

Must be the wine and the fatigue getting to me.

Unfortunately there is a lot of bad sportsmanship but unless you the exhibitor are willing to stand behind how you feel about another person's behavior, then the AKC - via the show committee's bench group- cannot do anything about it.

As a bench committee, we can indeed review this type of behavior and do something about it but you must put your money where your mouth is and be ready to do your complaint in writing and able to confront this person at a hearing.

This is the first year that I have not had an exhibitor come forward with a problem, but I personally almost called two hearings. What example do we give John Q Public when we act this way. why would they ever want to join in our sport.

Arrested development sums it up pretty darn well, along with general crankiness and low self-esteem in many cases.

I used to be kinda cranky and bitchy when I was in my late teens and early 20's. I guess I thought it made me look important and like "a mover and a shaker." I was actually proud when poeple would say "Well, Valerie can get things done - but she's kinda bitchy about it." It didn't hurt my feelings one little bit to be described like that. I'll admit that was pretty immature thinking on my part.

As I have matured, I realize one of the MOST important things to me is my reputation - and I, for the most part, have control over that! I want to be remembered as a kind, helpful and loving person and strive everyday to leave that type of impression on the people I meet. We cannot control others, we can only set a good example.

As for those negative, mean and ill-speaking people I encounter, I try to ignore them. I actually pity them in many cases - they must have miserable lives and are remembered poorly.

Just some of my thoughs.....
Valerie

"It is called arrested development. These people's development was stunted for some reason or other."

Maybe they were neutered too early?

I just want to say that for the most part, the people I have encountered ringside and in the ring have been nice, kind, and gracious to one another. Handlers and exhibitors alike have made me feel comfortable and have even given me tips (and critiques when I asked for them).

However, I have occasionally run into some "bad attitude" people. I really wanted to say something to them but was afraid that I would be heard by the judge or other exhibitors who might not have heard the original comments, and might think that I was the one starting it. So, thank you very much for posting the proper protocol.

Maybe after reading this post, people will be a little more conscious of what they say. I don't think all of it is "temper trantrums." Maybe they just don't realize that they are within earshot of people who might be offended. They are entitled to their opinions, but please, not ringside. Keep it private.

Spectator to Reserve winner "Congratulations, you looked wonderful out there !!!"

Reserve Winner's response "It should have been better, but the Judge was playing politics!!!"

a few minutes later RW to the point Winner "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH congrats, you deserve this...blah, blah blah......."

I'll never forget the time I won an equitation class at a horse show and the girl that took second actually came up to me and said that she should have won the class. My response was, tell it to the judge.

There's all kind of people out there with no class or sportmanship.

Indeed, Patty...and I recall an equitation class where the MOTHER went up to the judge and said that her darling daughter should have won...and guess what happened in the very next class with the very same riders & horses? hmmm? And we think that "dog people" can be nervy? People an be great and people can be the pits. Sad but true, people are only people....wish many of them could be more like their Labradors.

Isn't that the truth, our dogs are so happy and wonderful and waggy and forgiving and just the best dog! Why can't there owners be more like them, what happened to the old tale about people looking and acting like there dogs? If that was true we would be the best people in the world!

MSW,

I would like to think if the same horse was deserving of the blue ribbon, that he won the next class.

But, I'll bet that wasn't the case.

Wondering if you're talking about hunter people?

This is a sport not a war.

Over here Across The Pond the ONLY acceptable thing to do when you are in the ring and the judge points to the winner is to walk over to the winner, shake their hand, and say, Well Done! With a smile.

I have only had 2 show dogs, and while we didn't do very much winning with them, we had a couple of placements that really made our day. I have had the misfortune of standing behind two people who were picking my dog apart while my husband had her in the ring, and looking back, I wish I had tapped them on the shoulder and said, "I don't know, I think she looks nice, but what do I know? I just live with her." But, for the few disparaging remarks that I have heard over the years, I have had a lot of compliments from people who didn't have to come up and compliment an unknown owner/handler on her lovely bitch, so I try to think about that and let the sour grapes keep to themselves.

I think some people can be too sensitive to critiques. I'm not talking about being nasty, but of course people are going to say thier opinons about the dogs. Everyone has thier favorate traits. I, myself am very self conciouse of other people opinons, but I'm tring to realize that not everyone likes the same thing, and yes people are there to critique my dog, that is why they come, that is why I show her. Again I'm not talking about being nasty or unsportman like, there is no reason for that, but I think it is ok for an honest opinon, I would tell my friend, I really don't like the dog becasuse..... and asked by the owner I would say the same thing. And I love for other people to critique my dog. As long as it's fair and hnonest. Anything that isn't is ignored.

What you describe is human nature and you will find it everywhere you go, and in every aspect of life. You will never change these people no matter what you say to them. It's useless to try. You just need to have the confidence to tell yourself, you really don't care what Betty Blowhard thinks, and you really really like your dog, and you are proud of him on the end of your lead! That's all that matters. Consider the source and keep your distance from these miserable people.
There are many many considerate and passionate people out there in the Breed ring, and you already know who they are. Stay away from the rest!

I think it's important for anyone in the show ring to realize that even if you do win or lose, people are watching. For myself, I watch how you handle both wins and losses. If you handle both graciously, then you are the person I want to deal with because you appear to be a good sport. Then I will approach you and make contact. My best contacts are with people who have helped me when I was a floundering newby. Bless them and their kindness. And they win.
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