What do you think
is is ok for a friend to show your dog if you are the show chairman
is is ok for a handler to show your dog if you are the show chairman
is it ok for your spouse to show your dog if you are the show chairman

Whether it's ok or not, I would never do it because if you win it sure would look fixed!

HUGE NO!!!!
With the amount of specialty shows there are every year, it wouldn't hurt anyone to miss one. And, no matter how it goes it looks fixed. There is simply no need for this and the Chairpersons main concern should that the event goes as well as possible. They don't need anything else to worry about, and their full attention should be on the day.

I'm going to take the other side. Having been show chair for 2 years, I've seen the difficulties of getting club members to volunteer to either be the show chair or be the judge's welfare chair. I don't see any problem with having someone else show your
dog(s) for you if you have either one of these jobs.
Just my two cents.
Kathy

At our local lab specialty this summer our show chair entered 11 dogs of her dogs shown mostly by her spouse. She was busy taking care of the Judge and running the show.

Her dogs won BOB, BBE, 12-18 M, Brood bitch, RWD & RWB.

That is what we all said when she won, it was very uncomfortable. The Show Superintendant said he didn't like it but it is not specifically against the rules.

I am a member of another small club. I understand what Cathy is saying and support our club in the decision to let our Show Chair enter their dog(s) as long as they are not handling them.

Be careful what you gripe about or their won't be Show Chairs. I doubt they take the job so they can "fix" a win. If you looked at the statistics I would imagine the % of their wins is the same as every other exhibitor.

i think it would be OK to have a handler show your dog.. but if you are housing, taking the judge out to dinner etc.. i wouldnt it looks bad..

It's very hard to find a Show Chair volunteer if they can not enter dogs too.

In our club, the show chair often has nothing to do with the Judges. We have a Judges liaison, who does everything for the Judges (pick them up, deliver them, entertain them, drive them to and fro...). The Judges committee selects the Judges, the Board approves. In our case last year, my co-chair had no dogs to show, and she was the Judges Liaison who tended to all Judge contacts. I didn't even eat lunch, let alone eat with the Judges. I was too busy chasing my tail. This year, the Judges Liaison is not involved in the workings of the Specialty in any other position.

I showed my own dog at the Specialty I chaired I(I had others entered, and they did very little in the show). My boy won BOB both days to my shock. I sure hope nobody thought it was fixed (although, I am sure there are small minded people who did and do). I had no more contact with those Judges than any other exhibitor(which was in the ring).

I am sure the Chairman at our show this year will have dogs entered... and I know darned well the first time the Chair will meet the Judge will be in the ring.

Most of us who have been in this for awhile know Judges. I know and enjoy the company of several. I have a couple of close friends who are Judges, and yes, I have showed under them. In many years of friendship, I have only won under one of them one time, and that dog deserved it that one time. I have never taken more than a 1st in a class under another. When you know a Judge well, they know the faults in your dogs as well as their strengths. It's hard to win under a friend. If everyone who knew a specific Judge didn't show under that Judge, entries would be miserably small.

I wish folks would quit being concerned with "fixed" shows (that is such a rare occurrence), and just understand that sometimes the chips just fall where they do.

Life is too short to be suspicious.
:-)
Dian

I think it's inappropriate for the show chair or assistant chair to enter their own dogs. on many levels - maybe a solution would be for clubs to give a gift of entries or lodging to show chair/asst for a neighboring specialty or something.

What happened to "not even the appearance of inpropriety" ?

I agree, the chairperson in question (with 11 Labs entered) had a very hard time after those wins with negative comments of it looking very bad.

I wouldn't do it for that reason, I wouldn't want others saying the nasty things that were said.

It's one thing to sit back and have your dogs handled by another, agreing that there will be no contact with that dog for the duration of the specialty, leaving all the showing and caring to a handler so the judges has no idea the dog(s) are yours, but it's another thing to have 11, and having your spouse show them.

I do understand it's difficult to find show chairs, and there is no rules against it, but please if you have to enter, enter a couple, not your entire kennel! If you win with each... ohhhh it looks fixed.

MVLRC does not allow our show chairman to enter dogs -never have never will. Being as I've been show chairman I can say it really doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. It's one show, one year. If you're not willing to give up entering your dogs than don't volunteer to be show chairman. It's that simple. The only exception I can see if the specialty is in conjunction with an all breed show and the all breed club is responsible for the judges.

i have to agree with the poster who stated "taking the other side".
From a show chair's position, its a thankless job that involves alot of personal hours to make an event fun for the exhibitors, spectators, and judges.
Unless its specifically stated in the premium, no dogs owned by show chairman will be exhibited and/or handled, the assumption is made that the club hosting the event has no issues with a show chair showing his/her dogs.
Its very hard to get any club members to step up to the plate and be a show chairman. When the club adds, cannot show his/her dogs, the pool of volunteers becomes very very small.

I agree it is hard to find volunteers and it is a hard job running a show but even the smallest clubs should persuade members to rotate the job and step aside one year each. BUT it is about the appearance of doing the right thing and the reputation of the club itself.

I think it looks terrible and reflects badly on our club.

I think the suggestion of a gift of lodging and entries to another clubs specialty for the show chair is a great one.

Does anyone know just how ridiculous the Brits think we are over all of this? It's quite common for them to have dinner together with the judges - not just the show chair - the night before and show under them the next day. Someone goes up, and no one cries "foul". Maybe this says something about US as a culture - always assuming the worst when someone else is successful. And that goes beyond dog shows....

As I am currently hard at work on several parts of Mid Jersey's upcoming Specialty this October (and have worked at our Specialty for the past 15 years)and I certainly do feel ANYONE in our club that wants to show at our Specialty certainly should be entitled to do so. I think the majority, if not all, of our members agree. Working at our Specialty means using up vacation time and lots of personal time at night working on different aspects so everything comes together. Most of us continue to do the same Specialty job(s) year after year and it works, things get done quickly and smoothly. We get very good judges and our members are excited to show to them. For some club members, it will be their only chance to show to this judges. Few of us would volunteer if it meant we could not show our dogs.

I am of the opinion that everyone should try and join a breed club if possible, learn, work hard, try to get good judges, put on a great show and don't concern yourself about what other clubs may or may not be doing. If you want to change a club's policy, then join that club and work with them from the inside.

Well said Heidi. I couldn't agree more!

>>>"Maybe this says something about US as a culture - always assuming the worst when someone else is successful."<<<

Boy, I couldn't agree more. Judges have *lots* of friends, Judges have contact with lots of people, and Judges sometimes know who is on the Board of another club.

For fun, lets build a specialty where there is *no* "appearance" of impropriety:
--Specialty Chairs may not show.
--The entire Board should refrain from showing at their Specialty (the Judge is probably aware of who the Board of Directors are). Heck, lets be safe -nobody in the club should show at their own Specialty!
--Anyone who calls a Judge friend, may never show to that Judge. In fact, nobody who even knows him/her should.
--Folks from the same town or State as the Judge shouldn't show. They just might know the Judge.
--Nobody with a puppy out of the Judges stud dogs should show that puppy to that Judge. Oh, and don't show any bitch you may have bred to her stud dog either...that might prejudice the Judge.
--Nobody who ever bought a puppy from a Judge should show to that Judge.
--Nobody can be seated at a dinner table with a licensed Judge at any event (ever), least they exchange pleasant conversation that may sway the Judge in their favor at a later date.
--Young/pretty women may not show to any male Judge (you have to *know* that will sway him in her favor, especially if her blouse is low cut and skirt is short)
--If it is a woman Judge, no young/handsome/built man may ever show to her... we *know* that'd sway her.

I am sure some of you could think of other absolutes, since there are many ways to give an "appearance" of impropriety.

Reading the list above, I bet folks will be breaking down the door to be a Judge, and the list of offers to work for a club will increase tenfold.

Do you really think being the Show Chair makes the Judge put up the dog? Really? Aaaiiee.. for heavens sake, give Judges more credit, and leave the tight undies in your dresser drawers at home. Try going to a show and just have fun! It makes for a wonderful time. If you win at a show, you walk on cloud nine, but lets face it, we all have about a 1/200 chance of taking home the big prize at a Specialty. Not good odds. If you don't win, but you've had a great time, then you've built memories that go far beyond any win you'll ever have. I have to look at records to remember what dog won where, but my memories of wonderful Specialties (when it is likely I didn't bring one ribbon home) are bright and vivid. Those memories always make me smile, and I couldn't begin to tell you who won at those shows, but I am sure that whomever did had a dog that the Judge believed was the best dog in the ring on that day. It may not have been my cup of tea, but who cares?

Dian

I currently sit on the show committee of a very large Canadian club. We are 'very' lucky, we have a huge committee and do have a judges liason who handles correspondence and entertaining the judge prior and after their stay with the club. Our club has left it up to the show chair themselves as to enter or not, however, they never set foot in the ring competitively nor compromise themselves nor club's reputation by overstepping the limits of none to extremely little contact during the weekend. Our club has been extremely fortunate that those taking on the mantle of Show Chair, they understand the ethics and disgressions the Club at large expects from them. Otherwise, it might turn into a very untasteful event with a lot of 'chat' afterwards-who needs bad press these days with entries not what they were or the reputation of the club(which I think is more important than the $$).
So to answer the questions originally asked:
What do you think
is is ok for a friend to show your dog if you are the show chairman
Yes
is is ok for a handler to show your dog if you are the show chairman
Yes
is it ok for your spouse to show your dog if you are the show chairman
Yes or other household member.
Its a HUGE job, hats off to those that step up to the plate

There are many good points made in this string of threads!!

I am the HRLRC chairperson this year and also back in 2000. For both specialty shows I did NOT enter dogs. Our club has gone back and forth on whether or not the show chair/judge liason should show at the specialty. At one point, we OK'd the show chair to enter and not exhibit dogs themselves, and recently we decided that the show chair/judge liason will not enter dogs. This decision was made by the HRLRC board in an effort to ensure that the show runs smoothly and minimize any sense of inpropriety in an exhibitors mind.

I have talked with and entertained enough judges over the years that the time spent with a show chairperson/judge liason does not influence their decisions. This topic comes up at the first judge's dinner outing. Folks, judges are at a show to judge the dogs. If a club is asking a judge to accept an assignment then the club should have the confidence to know that the judge will judge the dog and not who's on the end of the lead. If you're in this sport long enough (like a lot of you) then you are bound to forge friendships and conversations with lots of judges around the world. The labrador world is big, but it's also small in a sense - we know lots of people everywhere.

For the HRLRC 2007 specialty, nobody would step up and take the responsibility as show chairperson. After several months of no volunteers, I stepped up and took the job. As a show chairperson, I never intended to enter dogs as I am always too busy tending to club business and judges. I don't have the time or energy to worry about showing dogs or making sure they have water and potty breaks. It's important to me that the club, our guests and judges get my attention at our specialty. Most of my friends will be at the specialty with their own dogs and I wouldn't think of trying to beg someone to show my dogs. So, I leave the dogs at home and consider the day a HUGE contribution of my service time to the club.

Oh BTW, this is the second year in a row that I will NOT have my dogs at my own club's specialty. Last year I was the judge liason.


Michelle VeuCasovic

I will qualify this post by saying I have shown very little and enjoy the specialty shows for themselves, whether I have a dog in them or not.

One thing my past few years in this hobby has shown me is that ( at least in certain geographic areas ), everybody knows everyone else, one way or another. You might know someone from seeing them at the dog shows regularly, or because you have mutual acquaintances, or because you belong to the same club, or because your dog's pedigree might contain some of their lines and you are familar with them because of that. The point is that unless people start showing wearing masks, the probability is high that if you show to a breeder judge and you are involved in the hobby, they will know you. The serious involvement in the hobby leads to that; it is unavoidable.

Practically all who are involved in a Labrador Retriever club fall into the category above. The question is then, why penalize some of the more harder working members of the club because of some function they perform in helping to run the club's specialty?

I also want to echo the prior poster who said you try to get judges for your specialty who are well respected for their accomplishments with their dogs in the breed. Does anyone think for one moment these people will throw their integrity and reputation out the window just to give an award to someone involved with the club? I imagine anyone who is judging is greatly concerned that they show themselves to be completely impartial to whom they award to. If anything, I would think a judge would tend not to put up a dog,if the selection would cast doubts on their impartialty.

Short of someone connected with the club, showing their dog to the judge, while jumping up and down and hollering " Over here " while pointing to their dog (which I would find distasteful and certainly suspect), I do not think being active in running any part of the specialty or the club, should disqualify a person from showing (aside from the example above).

I was the Obedience Chair for the LRCGB specialty this year, the show chair and I did not show our dogs this year. The club prefers we don't and in reality, it wouldn't be fair to my dog, there is so much running around, checking on things, feeding judges, making things run smoothly that my poor dogs would be stuck in the van all day. (I did bring along a dog who likes to spend the day in the van, she was happy to watch from there) There is so much going on , the chairs need to focus on the show.

Do I like the policy, no if I want to show myself, but it makes sense to focus on the job at hand, and its more fair to my dog.

There are other specialties, other shows, and I just feel one of the things I do for the club is take my turn as show chair, its one specialty/two shows out of a whole year, its not going to change the price of gas or bring world peace if my dogs sit one out.

I have another obedience chair I alternate with so we can take alternate years showing and chairing.

I feel very strongly about folks stepping up, even if its inconvenient not to show at one show, its "taking one for the club", which if people don't do, there won't be clubs, there won't be specialties. I enjoy showing my dogs, and I'm willing to do the work to have our specialty, and appreciate that volunteers at other clubs take their turn making it all work so we all have lots of shows and venues.

Barb

I totally agree with Barb and Michelle. Sometimes you need to take one for the club. I also agree that more club members should be involved. If you feel that you don't want to except a position because you can't show your own dogs then maybe you should consider stepping down and allowing someone else to take over. People talk enough without even having a reason, so why would you give them one. There are a lot of shows. I'm sure missing your own for your club is not too much to ask.

"If you feel that you don't want to except a position because you can't show your own dogs then maybe you should consider stepping down and allowing someone else to take over."

Allowing someone else to take over? Like there's a line of people waiting in the wings? Please, tell us how your club achieved this one, because everyone I know in working positions in several regional lab clubs says the same thing - it's the same 10 or so people doing all the work year in and year out. After doing the same job several years in a row in starts to remind one of the old Henny Youngman line: "Now, take my wife.... please!"

C'mon
There are a lot of other positions in a club other than show chair, both club executive positions and on the show committee where people can contribute and still show their dogs. And if it is the same 10 people doing all the jobs year in year out then once every 10 years you don't show your dogs while you are show chair.
It really is about the reputation of the club and the greater good.
In our club members no longer want to be part of it and people who came to our show only heard scandal and were left with a poor impression. It has hurt our reputation and that is a shame for everyone.

You are right. I'm sure there are not 10 people waiting in line for the Show Chair position or any other position for that matter, but there are many clubs that don't allow you to show if you hold certain jobs because they are concerned about the reputation of their CLUB. HATS OFF to those type of unselfish people. We need more of them.

The show chairman position is one that everyone avoids because it takes A LOT of work. I see nothing wrong with having someone else show their dogs. Another position is club president. It's one everyone avoids like the plague -- too much work involved.

So true! Both positions are a ton of work. Try them both during the same year. Sometimes I'm ready to pull my hair out.

geeez,who are you people that think you have the right to complain about a club and what their members do? I guess the same people that like to put their noses in others business

We are the members!

Jackie Mischou and Krista Beal did a fantastic job being show chairs. I am sure they both wanted to show in the Potomac but had to sacrifice in the spirit of propriety:) That is why the Potomac remains the Specialty of Specialties! Great work Jackie and Krista!

well its our entries that support your club.. and IMO if you entertain the judge ,, eg taking out to supper,, etc.. or have them to your home.. you shouldnt be showing your dog to them.. Now if you show chair and have someone looking after the judges besides yourself then i see nothing wrong with it
i have show chaired and i did not have a entry.. why would i give people something to talk about?

So - how many times have you personally seen this happen, and the judge puts their dogs up? Now, how many times have you personally seen this happen, and they take the walk with everyone else? Well, whatdya know - far more of the latter than the former (unless you are living the dream). If you're trying to find an excuse for why a judge put their dog up and not yours, I would suggest looking at the dogs.

I KNOW that Krista worked very hard but what exactly did Jackie do?

We are not looking for excuses why we win or don't win. It is just unnecessary stress for the judges for they are only human. I'm sure that they have every intention of doing the best job they can when they enter the ring and don't need other things to think about. But more important is what other exhibitors think about our clubs. Without their entries we won't have to worry about it looks like because they won't be attending

Look at all the replies on this topic and the controversy it generates.

At the end of the day it is not about whether there actually was any impropriety or not but it is all about the appearance of impropriety.

I would like our club to encourage more members to join and help and more people to attend our shows but instead our ethics are being called into question as a club.

That is why I think we should avoid this conflict of interest, for the good of the club. How sad that all we talked about afterwards was this and not what a great show, or what a nice dog that won.

It is nothing to do with being a sore loser and everything to do with being a good club member.

You can say that Club Chairs win no more than anyone else but her we have someone who says she was show chair last year and her dog was BOB both days. In our club our show chair also won BOB. I think it is rare for show chairs to enter dogs so those are pretty good odds don't you think.

WELL SATD

I think there is definately a difference in the show and the expectations when there are a large number of dogs entered.
I believe the one in question had maybe 50 dogs entered and 11 were from the show chair's kennel.
Therefore 1/4 of the dogs entered belonged to the show chair.
I think most would agree that the show chair in this case should not have dogs entered, and certainly not 11 at such a small show.

If it is so distasteful to have the show chair either show or enter dogs, then check the front of the premium the next time you get one. It will state if the show chair or show committee or whoever is or is not allowed to show their own dogs or even have someone else handle for them. If you find it offensive to allow the show chair to show or have someone else show for them, then don't enter the show. But if you choose to enter knowing the show chair has the opportunity to show or have a handler show, then do not complain. You made that choice.
No one made it for you.
And if you did not enter because the show chair was able to show dogs, then write a letter to the club telling them why. Nothing makes a bigger impact than low entries.

So, the show chair does not show. Then someone they knows wins - oh my it must have been planned that this judge would like their friends dogs. Get over it and grow up! I guess all this nonsense amongst adults is why I have begun to enjoy going to High School sporting events more - at least there I only here this nonsense out of young people with coaches that quickly remind them to keep their mouths shut and learn that life is about winning and losing gracefully

HELLO, WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT WINNING AND LOSING.

I just counted approximately 80 specialties in a years time on Jills specialty page. They can still make 79 if they won't miss one!!

On a specialty that small, who's to say the show chair didn't enter that many so the specialty would break even?

I'm thinking that if any specialty needs the entries of it's show chair to have enough entries, it may be a good idea to think about not having that show any more if it's not cost affective.

Not every specialty has the advantage of being in a highly populated area. There are some clubs in the middle of the country, Texas, New Mexico, Kansas, Colorado,to name a few, who do not get nearly as many entries as the East Coast clubs. Its all due to the geographical area and how far folks have to travel to enter to get to a specialty. And thank goodness, these clubs host specialties or alot of folks could never attend one. So, yes, to help support the entries, usually all the club members including show chairman enter dogs.

"Look at all the replies on this topic and the controversy it generates.
At the end of the day it is not about whether there actually was any impropriety or not but it is all about the appearance of impropriety.....That is why I think we should avoid this conflict of interest, for the good of the club. How sad that all we talked about afterwards was this and not what a great show, or what a nice dog that won."

I really think this says it all -- it is the appearance of impropriety rather than whether there was or wasn't any favoritism (and likely there wasn't but do you really want people speculating about whether you deserved the win or not -- kind of casts a shadow on a special moment).

Look at this quote from the AKC Sportsmanship code as an example:
• The sportsman exhibitor declines to enter or exhibit under a judge where it might reasonably appear that the judge’s placements could be based on something other than the merits of the dogs.

I am a member of a small, newly recognized club. The person who will be show chair for our first specialty this spring will NOT be showing at it. Even in our formative stages we all agreed that the show chair would NOT show any dogs so we plan to rotate this job to be fair to all. Hopefully it will work out as planned and no one will have to miss more than one year of showing at our own specialty.

It's not about winning or losing, it's about appearance of impropriety as mentionned previously, couldn't have said it better myself.

For instance, take the Lottery, it will not allow any of it's employees or family members of their employees to play. Humm why is that? CAUSE IT LOOKS FIXED! Yet, what are the odds their numbers come out?? But they won't be able to cash in.

Any game where the host wins, looks bad People may not want to play next round.

It's one thing to show 11 dogs as a chair by your spouse and win with 8 or 9 of them (including BOB) and it's another thing to sit back and have a dog or two shown by a handler and not be seen in company of the dog(s).

I find this thread very interesting. I was not aware that so many people would think there was some impropriety at show chairs showing their dogs at a Specialty. The club I belong to allows it and I've never given it a moments thought..even the times that the show chair has had nice wins. Our judges are selected by a committee and then approved by the board. Invitations to judge are sent by the club secretary and then all further correspondence is handled by our judges liason. Our liason doesn't show dogs at the specialty. The liason takes the judges to dinner,etc. Our banquet is after all judging so in some cases I bet our judges don't even know who the chair even is until they sit down to dinner after the show is over.

Now how nasty can you be. ALL show chairs work like dogs all year long - been there - done that. And after the show some of us pull knives from our backs for months.
Jackie spent many long hours trying to manage our largest showcase Lab show and accomplished the nearly impossible task of scheduling the many classes so that for the first time that I can remember, conflicts were minimal and things flowed smoothly.
SHAME on you for your nasty comment KUDO's to Jackie and to Krista and ALL the others who make this extremely difficult show run as well as it does

Strange that you should say that "they can still make 70" specialties. That assumes that all of the other specialties are close enough to travel to.
Our club is 500 miles from the next closest specialty and all of the others are even farther away.

Darn....... I'm a show chair, I've entered my dogs, I've not won......... must be doing it wrong. Didn't know that I was supposed to get special consideration and apparently neither did the judges.
My friends have won though and wouldn't you know that I was accused of "arranging the win". HMMMMM - I'm generous to my friends but not that geneorous. If "the fix" was in then my dogs would have won

I find it very telling that people who don't know the difference between entropian and ectropian, can't stoop so low as to congratulate others on a hard earned win, and have their noses in everyone else's business but their own, also think that everyone is fixing the shows against them. Maybe your dogs aren't good enough to win. Yes... politics can be present in the dog fancy. It's part of the territory. You either learn to deal with it or you don't. A small club has an even smaller core group of workers and sometimes the incentive to chair a large event is not much. Each club has to do what they can to pull off their specialties.

What the heck do the way a dogs eyelids curl have to do with this?

There may be some sore losers but it seems there are some very ungracious winners too.

"That's the politics of showing, get used" to it is hardly a healthy attitude for a "sport"

My GOSH! This thread is not about winning or losing. Are you people too thick to realize that or are you just at a loss for words. Who cares if you are a show chair and haven't won. Your clubs can run
as you and your members see fit but I can assure you that this topic is being discussed by more people then just on this forum. When your numbers are down and your wondering why, maybe you need to look on how your conducting business.

AMEN

Because people accuse judges and committees of show fixing, clubs have to act in ways to prove that they are not doing it. It's a shame because I think fixing is rare and I also thinks it's the thief that says everyone has their hand in his pockets.

I remember an all breed show where a Lab owner heard the fix was in for Winners Dog. She ran around and convinced most of the exhibitors to turn in the bitch armbands in protest under the guise the dog wasn't feeling well. I refused. When HER dog and handler took the points, there was a mad scramble to pick up armbands on their now recovered bitches.

I will not be staying home if I like the judges and the club is friendly and welcoming. I can't ever recall looking to see if the chair was showing or not.

Having been on the end where people are trying to find a judge, that hasnt judged a million times before is hard and is getting harder every year.

Why is everyone complaing about the show chair?
It seems as though there are more and more people who only want to show at specialties, and now that judges are being picked more than a year in advance, how hard is it to see these judges at a specialty and start talking to them?

I for one would like to hear about these so called fixed shows, because it should be mentioned that, that judge is just as guilty as the person who wins and should NEVER be given another judging assignment.

We had an English judge come over, the judge was give firm notice from AKC about not talking with exhibitors, while catching a connecting flight this judge overheard other all breed judges talking about who they expected to see in their groups.

We were told that in England, judges routinley have dinner the night before with friends and club officers, judges are after all expected to have a sense of ethics

I am familiar with the summer speciality show that is in question. Where there is smoke there is fire and there is fire that has been uncovered. It is not directly about the winnings of this show but about the background that has produced this and how things have gone terribly wrong.

Only some people know the background and for those from afar it is impossible to correctly comment. Therefore, for some reading and writing here, you only know that there is a gripe about a show and how it was run. In this business of enjoying labs there has been experienced lately...the sad side. People who are overly competitive have their dogs secondary to their joy of winning. This is what I have seen in this case and nothing for them is any more important. Some of the people who are writing in this thread have just cause to be annoyed and have endured unpleasant situations for years in and out of the showring that we are talking about. There are some people here who admire a dog's good temperment,how a lab was intented to look, the ability to do what a lab was intended to do and the dog's love of people and the showring etc. Then we see those who put their dogs in crates,cover them up for endless hours at a show (much to the unhappiness of the dogs) and care openly only about those few minutes in the showring.

In this case,dogs and people have been treated without professionalism,without care,without respect,without kind regard for other winners.

To the readers here please note that the unpleasant situations mentioned have been experienced by lab owners and breeders from across Canada. This is not a single incident gripe from a small club but from people who have been manipulated in and out of the showring. There are serious instances that have happened that should have been reported to the CKC but people don't want to make waves but want to keep things in a good light hoping that misconduct won't happen again. I feel very badly about instances that have happened to people. In the future there will be complaints to the CKC, a promise.

As we all know it isn't about winning or losing but how we play the game. When they lose, the lose it and are rude often to the winner (in and out of the showring) especially if they are not associated with the winners.

People who have been around for awhile could write a book I am sure. Sometimes it would be less harmful to "not" have that particular show than to have someone who could do harm to a club.

The situations experienced almost at every show have had the good side and that is about the people who are ethical, who have good morals and have a real love for labs to the point of relocating many sadly unwanted labs. Those are the lab lovers. My hat goes off to them especially over and over again.

Let's clean up the act people and get on with loving the labs.

If this person is so evil why did the club let them be show chair? Maybe, no one else would take on the job?
These issue should not be aired on a public forum. It was clear as I read the thread that the real issue was not about Show Chairs and showing their dogs, but about an individual person.

I have chaired Miami Valley (and will be charing in 08) and like Liz Martin, have not showh my dogs-even when I am assistant show chair.
The job of show chair and assistant show chair takes up so much time and energy, I have always felt it wouldn't be fair to my dogs. They would be in the van for hours, and I wouldn't have the time to be with them, exercise them, etc. My main priority as show chair is to be available and make sure the show is running smoothly at all times. Showing a dog or even having a dog with me would just be another added stress. Finding club members who are will to be show chair is always a problem. It's basically a big thankless job

**Where there is smoke there is fire and there is fire that has been uncovered. It is not directly about the winnings of this show but about the background that has produced this and how things have gone terribly wrong. Only some people know the background and for those from afar it is impossible to correctly comment. **

Then don't. What your innuendo, hints and suggestions do is assassinate someone's character and they can't fight back. If AKC rules were violated, call a committee and deal with it. Ankle biting is very un-Labrador like.

I can correctly comment because I have been there on different occassions over time and have been a witness first hand.You cannot understand this if you have not been there at some point and no CKC committee could do anything about some of the harm already done.Like I said in my post that anything further will be reported to the CKC.Enough people have come forward expressing their concerns and disapproval both from Canada and the US to definately warrant that happening.

They have been assassinating their own character all by themselves and they know right from wrong.

As I followed this threat it appeared, as least in the beginning, to be asking people to comment on whether they thought a show chair should exhibit - was it wrong, gave the wrong appearance or acceptable?

To take everything that was said, and there does seem to be a real difference in opinion on this issue between people involved in showing, and say it actually is dealing with one specific incident is an attempt to hijack a general discussion to fit in with one person's belief (right or wrong), about something they think happened to them.

If the writer was paying attention, a lot of American breeders left comments, and they did not seem to be talking about Canadian shows.

I can see why you think this thread was hijacked.
I think this thread was triggered by a particularly unpleasant incident in Canada that made a lot of people unhappy. But the discussion opened up how a lot of people through-out North American felt about the situation that perhaps some were unaware of.

Hopefully the wide airing this issue recieved means awareness of people's feelings on the issue to people on show committees.

If their club really is so small they cannot or do not want to prevent the Show Chair from exhibiting then be very aware of appearances and ensure your show chair and judge do not associate, or communicate at all before the show.

Perhaps club members will realise that not only is show chairman a huge undertaking but there are other sacrifices too and more will volunteer to share the load.

I am well aware of the show and chair in question and it is a good example of 'you reap what you sow'.
Good breeders and good people who keep their noses clean will garner more respect and less griping than those who value winning over the the breed and their individual dogs.

"If their club really is so small they cannot or do not want to prevent the Show Chair from exhibiting then be very aware of appearances and ensure your show chair and judge do not associate, or communicate at all before the show."

How long before the show? 3 months, 6 months, a year, three maybe? Most of the breeders who have dogs nice enough to consistently win talk to each other all the time. What about if you're not show chair, but you have the judges dogs splashed all over your pedigree? You see where I'm going with this? Sooner or later, for people who see a boogie man around every corner, no one would show to anybody!

"Perhaps club members will realise that not only is show chairman a huge undertaking but there are other sacrifices too and more will volunteer to share the load."

Right. Clubs routinely have several people clamoring to be show chair. Hmmm... I need to shed some Arizona swamp land from my portfolio and I think I just found a buyer -- perhaps....