I've had someone who wants to breed her nice bitch to my stud tell me that she has "prominent Posterior Y Sutures" when she got a recent CERF. The eye doctor didn't say too much other than the bitch would CERF but that the owner might want to wait a year before breeding her and re-ck. the sutures, that they can turn into cataracts. What she is telling me just doesn't make sense to me. I do not want to breed to this bitch with my stud dog until I know a lot more about this.
Anyone have experience with posterior Y sutures?

Yes, and my dog did not CERF. They were called Posterior cataracts. And the picture the optha/vet drew on the CERF paperwork were Y suture. The anterior cataract does CERF.

Thanks for your input. What she was telling me really didn't add up but I don't know what this is. When I asked her if she would wait a year and get her bitch re-CERF'd to check it's progress before considering breeding like the eye doctor suggested, she said, "I really don't want to." I then advised her to follow what the eye doctor was telling her and gave her the speech about not breeding a bitch with possible hereditary eye problems, etc. That's when she assured me that the eyes would CERF. Anyone else out there have any experience with this?

I think that when you look at the lengthy list of health issues that we can have in our breed, this falls to the bottom of the list, IMO.

I had a girl with small triangulated Posterior Pole Cataracts who didn't CERF. I was told it wouldn't effect her vision and wouldn't progress. Great girl, great orthopedics, no other issues. Performance titled in Obedience and Field. I decided I wanted to breed her and the stud owner I first contacted wouldn't let me use their dog.

I went on to find another person, who agreed with me that this is a very small issue in our breed. After I did the breeding, I was contacted by a small service dog organization who was interested in pups from this breeding, due to great hip scores. (she was 80% percentile Pennhip and OFA Excellent) I explained the situation, they spoke to their vet, and now they are working on their generation and have had very nice pups so far. BTW, both daughters of my dam CERF'd, as have all subsequent pups.

The only way I would say no to this person was if there were other issues or if I had the same problem in my line...I wouldn't want to double up on it.

CERF wants to eliminate all eye disease. I think it behooves us as breeders to look at the whole picture and think for ourselves. "Life is more complicated than clear hips and eyes."

another reason for all litters to be screened by 8 weeks of age and then again by 6 months. The Y "suture line" described above is entirely normal in a developing puppy. Usually, this line knits completely and leaves no residual evidence in the form of "suture tips" or a definite "suture line". If not documented in a puppy, however, and mapped on the ACVO form, and if these suture lines do not completely or even partially resolve themselves, they can be interpreted as cataracts, or other abnormalities in an adult dog.

BTW...I should have posted as a different "breeder". I am not the same as the one who initially responded.

If the Y suture line is normal in a young dog should they not be able to see it on the Cerf exams at that age as well? Just trying to understand how if they don't completely or partially resolve themselves, how are they mistaken as Cataracts or other abnormalities in an adult dog? What should they be or not be diagnosed as then?

When you do puppy eye exams, you do more than one...especially if there is an issue. If the suture line partially resolves, you may end up with what are called "suture tips"...if not documented and notations made by the ACVO, another vet doing an exam on this same dog (as an adult) would only be able to see what is evident at the time of the exam, without the benefit of the dog's eye exam history. In other words, unless you have had puppy exams done, you really have no way of knowing what the condition really is.

I want to add, the suture line is usually fully resolved by the time the puppy is 7 or 8 weeks old...some puppies take a little longer. Every now and then, the suture line does not fully resolve, that is why it is important to have those early exams...just in case something like this might happen...then at least you would know.

So, what is the best age to take pups in for there first eye exam 6,7 or 8 weeks?

Dr. Betts at ISU wants Labs between 7-8 weeks. Some other breeds he won't examine before 8 weeks old.

MK

Thank You!

I asked my DVM about this and Suture Tip(s)...he told me the they are not hereditary and usally resove...... he also said a puppy with it marked on the form would CERF. (?) I wonder, would it come back as Breeders Option?