I received a call yesterday from someone referred by my regular vet regarding a breeding. This woman called late in the afternoon and explained her situation to me. Seems she has the #1 dog in her breed (toy breed), who she finished at *EIGHT MONTHS*, and, (this will really get you) this was her second champion she finished herself! Total novice, and she hit the jackpot with the first two dogs she bought.
Now everybody wants to breed to her young stud dog who is now 18 months old. He has taken this breed's world by storm. Trouble is, this stud owner has no idea how to breed dogs or manage a stud dog. She merely took the visiting bitch into her home, the day the vet said to breed, and expected a maiden bitch and novice stud dog to just, well, breed! She tried her best for two days, and at the end of the second day, called me! I asked her questions that I hoped would give me some answers so I could help her, but she had no idea when the progesterone tests were done, or what the levels were. She only was told by the bitch owner (also fairly inexperienced) to breed Monday and Tuesday. She didn't even know if her stud had had an outside tie or if he had penetrated the bitch, saying she was unable to see what they were doing.
My question to her was, "Well, how important is this breeding to you?" Her answer: "My reputation and my stud dog's reputation is at stake, since everybody wants to see how he will reproduce." Yet she had no idea how to be successful. She told me, "I bought some tubing so I could inseminate the bitch if you can tell me how over the phone." (not touching that one with a ten foot pole)! I told her she was asking a lot to attempt a breeding or insemination with a novice stud and maiden bitch, with no experience and no help. Fortunately, we have a super person locally who does massive amounts of reproductive work, and I referred this person to her. I had a class to go to, and could not help her last night. I wish she had not waited so long, but this was what I was presented with at 5:30 pm.
Her parting comment to me was, "I love the showing part, I feel I was born to show, but the breeding part escapes me!" I think this was a wakeup call to her, and to me, to "do it right the first time" if it's something as important as a breeding. It's not for the faint of heart, the overconfident, or the inexperienced!!
I was pretty blown away by the whole conversation, and just thought I'd share!

Everyone has got to start somewhere and I would think that people would be more helpful and not critisize others when they don't know what to do, not a very gracious thing to post this one on the forum IMHO.
Aloha,
Jackie

I didn't read that as criticism but more someone who wanted to do things right but didn't know how. Sort of "managing a stud dog isn't the easiest job in the world, especially for someone without a mentor!"

I have had bitches for 13 years. Kept one male at one point, but placed him as he was not show quality.

I now may have a male that might be competitive, and while I certainly don't think that I am at the level of the toy person mentioned, I have not done any stud dog management and am a bit worried about it.

Any thoughts on success?

Do all use teaser bitches? How do you "find" them if so and you have a small breeding program? How often should I collect him to get him used to "doing it"? Do people divide fractions of semen? Do any spin down semen? How long before a collection can the male pee? ????

I actually am enjoying the stud dog part better than the whelping puppies part. You get a bitch in for a week, collect money, and send them away. Or you get money, collect your dog, send boxes (and the bitch owner pays for shipping) and you are done. Not to say that it isn't always that smooth, but it sure is easier than whelping pups. You spend money like crazy, spend four months worrying about a pregnant bitch and then puppies, and you have to sell the pups at the end which is no done deal around here.

But yes, you have to know what you are doing. (A knowledgeable friend with a stud dog (nearby) can be a great asset. Doesn't even need to be the same breed.) Stud dogs need training too! Some more than others. I keep frozen swabs from bitches in season in the freezer but haven't had to use them yet. My Hav stud is now trained to just jump on the couch and get collected. Doesn't even need a bitch around. I insist on progesterone testing of the bitch, and if she comes to me I include the testing in my stud fee (we use the PreMate test from Camelot Farms which is faster and cheaper than the vet's lab.) If the test says go, and the bitch says no, I just do an AI.

If I hadn't had experienced people present when I did my first breedings. Their knowledge and help were and continue to be invaluable.

Wonderful for her for such a great start! It was very nice of you to refer her to a vet that could help her. She'll get the hang of it.

Oops - by cutting and pasting I left a fragment at the end of my last post. It should have read "If I hadn't had experienced people present when I did my first breedings I would have been lost!"

All this used to boggle my mind too on shipping. How do you have a girl available that smells right on the right day for shipping I used to wonder? Well, we don't worry with in heat teaser girls anymore. TRAIN your boys to work with YOU. Best to start them off by collecting them whenever your girls are in, look at the semen under the scope, toss it, you are doing this to train them. You will gain confidence too, and there is no pressure of a girl needing to be bred on the other end. Have an area they ONLY go to for breeding. Do the same routine every time. Start the yougsters off on girls in season. When they are older (about 2) they just need to see a 'warm body' in that area of the building and me getting the collection sleeve in hand they could care less what she smells like! Look at the sample under the scope make sure it is good in motility, minimal abnormals and good in numbers. Then you can ship with confidence.

Well seemed to me that even if she did try and help to a small degree she shouldn't have posted it as it makes the inexperienced owner of the stud dog look stupid.... put the shoe on the other foot and see if you asked someone for help and they blabbed it all over the place about your inexperience how would you feel? I just feel that it should have been kept to herself instead of posting it on a public forum especially if people figure out who this person she is talking about is and with so many wanting to use her male.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

I didn't read that as criticism but more someone who wanted to do things right but didn't know how. Sort of "managing a stud dog isn't the easiest job in the world, especially for someone without a mentor!"

Thanks for the tips in the last post. Good ideas. Also, to the original poster of this thread - I enjoyed your post. In my opinion, you did help this person by sending her to a particular individual with years of experience.

This is not a cut or anything, but it still surprises me how many people jump in feet first without doing any research. I am doing my first litter and have researched AI, reproduction to death. I finally got my bitch to the vet for a check up and a booster and to talk to the vet about breeding, and it turns out everything she told me was a refresher for what I had already learned. It allowed me to not get overwhelmed and focus on more specific details like how many times do I need to get the semen shipped, and what is that magic LH number.

My some of you sound so harsh!
This person sounds like they got in very quickly because they got a great dog right away. Not everyone is that lucky, in fact few are.
I think the person should be applauded for going so far with their dog as a newbie! It's commendable!
Can't we just help people out when they need it rather than belittle them for not automaticlaly knowing how to AI a dog!!??
I know breeders in dogs for 20+ years that still don't do their own AIs!
Hard to believe I know, but true still!

I sure am glad it wasn't me who asked for advice! I think you were terribly harsh on this person. I also know breeders that have been around a long time that have no idea how to AI and they get someone else to do it for them.
It's just not good to belittle someone on a public forum this way.
She must feel terrible seeing this about her. tsk tsk tsk

Yeah, way to go encouraging the newbies to continue love to show!! Sheesh!
I guess jealousy goes beyond ones own breed?

The breed was never mentioned. How will it be figured out? That's paranoia.

All of the good input might help guide this breeder, nothing wrong with posting without the breed name

Seems like now is the time for a chuckle, and we can even do it at my expense! I can remember vividly many many years ago the first time I shipped semen, it was fresh chilled and sent via Delta Dash. I had everything all collected, parts and pieces added, labeled, cold pack in ready to go. I was prepared by golly! Got to the Delta Dash Counter and filled in all the paperwork when the gentleman behind the counter (just doing his job mind you)asked the fateful question..."Ma'am I need you to declare the contents of your package," and "Ma'am please open your package so I can inspect the contents." Working hard to keep a straight face while opening the box I managed to squeak out "the package contains Dog Semen." At which point the gentleman who had reached for the box quickly withdrew his hand. I knew we were about to "have a moment" when it became deathly quiet.
He cleared his throat and as I looked at his face I saw a deep blush start at the top of his striped Delta blue shirt. His next words were priceless! "Ma'am do I want to know how you got THAT?" By now I am blushing and chuckling. I told him "It was strictly animal husbandry, but now that you mention it my dog did have a smile when I left to come to the airport." Yes, I do have a sense of humor!
Needless to say he must have told the entire Delta Dash Crew as I was never asked to open the box for inspection again, and they always asked me if it was "the usual" and leered every time I shipped.

Sue; A cute story that I LoLd all the way through. Thank you for taking the time to share it, what a way to start the day; with a smiley. I love these stories, old and new.

Kudos for telling us all!

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Replying to:

Seems like now is the time for a chuckle, and we can even do it at my expense! I can remember vividly many many years ago the first time I shipped semen, it was fresh chilled and sent via Delta Dash. I had everything all collected, parts and pieces added, labeled, cold pack in ready to go. I was prepared by golly! Got to the Delta Dash Counter and filled in all the paperwork when the gentleman behind the counter (just doing his job mind you)asked the fateful question..."Ma'am I need you to declare the contents of your package," and "Ma'am please open your package so I can inspect the contents." Working hard to keep a straight face while opening the box I managed to squeak out "the package contains Dog Semen." At which point the gentleman who had reached for the box quickly withdrew his hand. I knew we were about to "have a moment" when it became deathly quiet.
He cleared his throat and as I looked at his face I saw a deep blush start at the top of his striped Delta blue shirt. His next words were priceless! "Ma'am do I want to know how you got THAT?" By now I am blushing and chuckling. I told him "It was strictly animal husbandry, but now that you mention it my dog did have a smile when I left to come to the airport." Yes, I do have a sense of humor!
Needless to say he must have told the entire Delta Dash Crew as I was never asked to open the box for inspection again, and they always asked me if it was "the usual" and leered every time I shipped.