What is your preference and why for OFA x-rays?
A Vet that uses anesthesia ( sp??) or one that does not?
Which way gives the most accurate x-ray?
I have a bunch of Prelims to do. My Vet who I have used for years does use anesthesia and is very against not using it. He says it is painful for the dogs without and that a good picture cannot be obtained that way.
I would love to have your comments as breeders as to what you think is the best method and why.
Thanks in advance.

He says it is painful for the dogs without and that a good picture cannot be obtained that way.
I would love to have your comments as breeders as to what you think is the best method and why.



I think every dog is different. Some can relax enough to have a good film, but many cannot. And you need to use a vet that knows what he is doing. I have had pre-lims and finals done on 2 of mine w/o anesthesia. All were OFA Good or Excellent so far. And I do have to say that neither had any amount of pain. It was quick and uneventful.

I don't think it's painful. Some will resist and wiggle and/or stiffen up and that makes it tough to get good positioning and can be stressful on some dogs who do NOT like being held down, however that's easily remedied by practicing at home a few times before going. Get your young dogs to lay on their backs and have someone hold their front legs while you pull on their back legs and tell them stay and then let them up and give a treat and praise them up. I personally don't want to risk the side effects of anesthesia on a procedure that is easily and quickly done without it at all.

I have NEVER used anesthetics with 20+ years of clearing dogs. It is quick and painless, although some will wiggle more than others.

MK

My vet showed me hip x-rays of the same dog under anesthesia and awake. The pics without anesthesia gave the appearance of much tighter hips. She feels the use of anesthesia gives a "truer" picture, although not always the news a breeder wants to hear.

I use a wonderful vet for OFA x-rays without anesthesia.

The vet must be seasoned in this for proper positioning and getting the dog relaxed.

This vet will allow me in the room for the positioning - to keep my dog calm. I then step out the door for 2 seconds while the pic is snapped.

Patty:
I am actually one of the people that restrain my guys for their films. The vet I use likes the mom or dad at their head to help calm them, and I think it helps alot with some dogs. It certainly does with mine.

Yes, I neglected to mention that I don a lead garmet and gloves and help position and hold my dogs for x-rays on hips and elbows.

MK

Does anyone know what OFA recommends? Personally, I had 1 with anesthesia with Excellent rating and 1 without anesthesia with Fair. Certainly made me wonder.

Here is what OFA web site says:

Chemical restraint (anesthesia) is not required by OFA but chemical restraint to the point of muscle relaxation is recommended. With chemical restraint optimum patient positioning is easier with minimal repeat radiographs (less radiation exposure) and a truer representation of the hip status is obtained.
*************

I have had all of my dogs done without chemicals, and all have come back Good rating hips and normal elbows (15 or more dogs over the years).

MK

My Vet uses anesthesia and says that's the best/most accurate way to do it.

I do know folks that use a mild sedative and that might be my preference but sadly my Vet doesn't believe in doing that.

I will add.........several folks I know have gotten 2nd / improved ratings by not putting their dogs under.......either it does tighten / improve the views or OFA was fickle??


As for it being painful? some dogs do appear abit tender after Penn-hip views?? Makes sense to me that being pulled and twisted might cause minor/ temporary lameness for a brief time?

I'll continue to use my Ortho Specialist Vet and not look for the best rating but the most accurate.

I think the risk of anesthesia when you put a dog out for OFA xrays, is too great. Why risk it when you don't have to? I am certain there are exceptions, but as a general rule, they do not have to be sedated, or put under general anesthesia to take accurate films.

My vet doesn't normally use anesthesia for OFA xrays, but asked to used some sort of "relaxer" for 2 of my dogs who had a lot of muscle in their back and hips. On prelims she had had difficulty getting good positioning, so on finals she gave them something--sorry, don't know what. They were never completely "out" and were able to walk out and go home immediately after the films were checked. Both graded Good on both prelims and finals. Seemed like the main advantage from my point of view was that it didn't take as long (easier on the dogs) and I didn't have to pay for multiple trys.

What about an opinion about the safety side of using anesthia for OFA x-rays?Better to use it or not? Is it worth the risk? How much is the risk?
Do we have any Vets or people that work in the medical field that would give an opinion on this?

I think we need to differentiate between anesthesia and sedation. I don't know any vets who anesthetize a dog for OFAs, but I know many, including my own vet, who sedate the dogs via a shot in the front leg vein - a valium/ketamine mixture. Are you saying your vets totally anesthetize using a gas inhalation method?

NO - I think that I am using the wrong term. Sedation is what I mean. Thanks for clarifing .

now I am confused

I am pretty "sure" my dogs are put under with gas......as required??? for Penn-hip as my Vet also does Penn-hip and has been charging me for anesthesia and not a "relaxing cocktail".

Can someone that does Penn-Hip on a regular basis reply to this

Just called my Vet's Office..........AND

yes........anesthesia / under gas is what they use for Penn-hip and for OFA they will sometimes do a "cocktail" of sorts if requested for pre-lim OFA's
Thier preference is to use anesthesia and as long as I continue to use them I guess that's the route I'll be taking.

Am going to talk with "Dr. Todd" about the cocktail route for some upcoming pre-lims though and listen to his opinion

I've been breeding/showing for 16 years and a vet for 5 years.

I have been doing OFA films without any type of sedation or anesthesia in 98% of my patients. We have mom/dad hold the head end, and a technician steady the chest and then we are patient with them.

I have always interpreted OFA's stance on sedation to mean that they feel the exactness you can get on positioning in a sedated animal allows for a more accurate evaluation.

However, if the vet is willing to take multiple films to get perfect positioning (which we don't charge extra for...)and assuming the vet knows how important positioning is AND what it is supposed to look like, then it is just a matter of being patient to get the perfect film.

I just submitted 9 sets of films to be checked of my own dogs from ages 9 months to a re-evaluation of my 8 year old. We got 6 excellents and 3 goods. My 8 year old male was upgraded from good to excellent. That was a very happy day. My clients are equally happy with what they get as well. I don't just try on my own dogs to get that elusive excellent.

So my opinion, IF the films are great with an awake dog, then why risk anesthesia? Also, just food for thought... I don't personally see how a sedated x-ray is more accurate. These dogs certainly don't run around everyday with no muscle tone. Their body condition and muscling is certainly an important part of their locomotion

For what it is worth

Pam,

Thanks for your input, I for one will be talking to my Vet, not sure how far it'll get me though.

my best
b

Pam

Thank you for your contributing to this thread.

Kutos for you in taking the time to get these dogs relaxed without sedation/aneth. I have been there and know it can be done.

anesthesia scares the crap out of me from bad experiences and I will avoid it at all costs.

The basis of Pennhip requires the dog to be anesthetized or deep sedation at least.The appliance is pushing on the hip to measure joint laxity and that can't be measured in an awake animal with tense muscles. Also, a good many of the dogs that need chemical restraint don't have to be anesthetized. Most of the time,light sedation/tranquilization will work but not always. A 110 pound American Bulldog who doesn't like strangers gets anesthetized!!! Debbie

I was involved with doing Penn hip evaluations in vet school and am aware it requires heavy sedation or anesthesia. I was just speaking of OFA radiographs. At the time, the opinion of our radiologist was not very high concerning Penn hip, for what reason I am unaware. I don't know if this many years later she feels the same. I did several of my own dogs, one was a 4 month old puppy who didn't score very well (40th %). We repeated her at 2 years old and her score was fine (80%). If I hadn't had the opinion of the radiologist NOT to cull her from breeding, I would have culled the best producing bitch I've ever owned at 4 months old. My personal experience led me back to using OFA, but I also will periodically recheck the hips as they age to be sure nothing changes after 2. More times than not they will get moved from good to excellent. I went years with NO excellents in my kennel, now I know due to horrible positioning. I got a lot of goods, but never an excellent. Now many of my hip scores are excellent. I wonder how many youngsters I culled from my breeding program before going to vet school and learning the importance of position ;-).

Finding a vet who knows this is the hard part... it almost takes a breeder/vet I think to understand the importance.

>>So my opinion, IF the films are great with an awake dog, then why risk anesthesia? Also, just food for thought... I don't personally see how a sedated x-ray is more accurate. These dogs certainly don't run around everyday with no muscle tone. Their body condition and muscling is certainly an important part of their locomotion <<

Pam, all I can say is THANK YOU! I could not agree more.

Dian Welle