I was at the vet yesterday and met a breeder of another breed who was there for her second surgical implant with frozen semen from a deceased champion. First one did not take. She has paid $2500 each time for the semen and $500 for the implants. Semen quality just a tad better this time around but not the best the vet said. I could feel her pain. I thought $3000 was a lot that I recently spent trying to get a litter out of a certain stud dog.

So, just curious how much have any of you spent to get a litter out of a certain dog? Sometimes I think we are nuts spending this kind of money!

If we really stopped to think about how much we spent in gas, entry fees, handling fees, all of the hotels we've stayed in at specialty shows to get that championship, plus all of the vet fees for CERF, OFA, x-rays, Optigen, etc. we'd probably choke! We do this because we love the breed, right? The cost is really unimportant. I don't have a ton of money, but if there's something my dogs need, I get it for them. I don't cut costs where they are concerned. I have gone without so that they could have the best. They bring me tons of joy; they deserve it.

I would never spend that amount of money trying to get a bitch bred. That of course it my choice and I'm not criticizing those who do. Your dogs, your business. If I can't get her bred with an AI or natural breeding, she doesn't get bred. This is my own humble opinion only. NO flames!!
I'll agree, if I really thought back at ALL of the money I've actually spent with just vet care, gas, clearances, puppy health certificates I'd croak!!!!

Just think how much we'd be owed if we put this many hours in on a real job.

I don't even consider all the expenses for showing, travel, etc. I just about spending as much as I want to with my planned breeding coming up. $1000+ for stud fees and shipping. $500+ for progesterone and other various vet expenses for the breeding. Unknown ammount during the waiting and the whelping and the puppy care. For ME, I just can't see any champion being worth spending $5000+ just on breeding expenses alone.

I wouldn't pay that either, but not because of the money. If we've done our job as breeders, each generation theoretically should be better than the generation before. So why would you want to go back to a previous dog? JMHO.

An unidentified person wrote:
"So why would you want to go back to a previous dog?"

I planned a breeding using semen I had frozen about 10 years ago. Unfortunately, the bitch cycled oddly and we didn't get to do the implant, but still plan to do this in the Spring. Why? Because I love the pedigree nick and the dog has the precise qualities I need for the bitch. I only had one opportunity to use the dog in my breeding program before I sold him overseas, so this will be his second litter here (if all goes well).

Am I taking a giant step backwards? Only time will tell. Am I willing to try this considering how drastically the average USA "type" has changed in the last decade? Enthusiastically!!

I understand your motives, but are you willing to drop $5K to do this? Maybe it's easier if it's YOUR dog and you know what you are doing. I just didn't get that impression from the initial post, but that could have been just my interpretation.

Ok Maureen. That makes some sense to me. But then my next question is, if he was so nice that you wanted to use him, and freeze his semen, why did you sell him? Just curious to learn.

I had a litter recently from semen that was frozen 7 years ago. I've been waiting to put this together for almost that whole time but had to wait for the appropriate female to use.

When you're working with tried and true lines established by yourself or a mentor then it becomes a dream come true to be able to design a litter.

I've spent thousands on a singleton litter in the past and haven't regretted it one bit. It's my vice - I don't smoke, do drugs, have hot cars or gamble on the slots.

I will try to answer both posts.
My Ch. Nimloth Jumpin' Jack Flash came along at a time that I had just taken early retirement and was starting college (age 54 - talk about culture shock). He was a beautiful dog that finished easily - majors from puppy class under breeder judges, etc. He was specialed very briefly because I had neither the time nor the money to spend on dogs right then. I simply needed to let someone else show him and breed him. I put out the word that he was for sale (he was about 3 then, all clearances, etc.) and someone from Japan was the first to offer me my price. I had semen frozen before I sent him. That was in December of 1996. I will be using some of it on my Ch. Nimloth Je Ne Sais Quoi in the spring. They are from similar Sandylands backgrounds and of that "style" which so pleases MY eye.

As to the costs, the frozen semen center that currently has my semen stored has a $250 flat rate for surgical insemination that includes up to 5 progesterone tests. If the bitch requires more, they are an additional $35 each. The board is $7.50 per day if I bring her food. Overall, it will probably be LESS expensive than many breedings that are done today by shipped semen.

We recently calculated that it was going to run about $900 total (on both ends of the breeding) to ship semen from my dog here in Kansas to my bitch in VA. Just think if there had been a stud fee on top of that ;-) The co-owner of the bitch and I decided that I would just send her the dog for a month for the breeding and some training (my niece didn't have him leash broken at 3 years!) We met about 10 days ago in Indiana - about half way for both of us - and the total gasoline plus motel cost was only $300. Sure it cost us some driving time, but we got to breed the bitch when she needed it and several times without repeated testing or shipments. Sometimes the "old" ways are really the best option.

I'm sorry Maureen, but I'm a little confused. Is the $250 flat rate for the surgical insemination itself? What about the cost to store the frozen semen for 11 years? Is that included too? And if it is for the insemination only, how can she be bred at the co-owner's? Wouldn't she have to be at your vet's office? Sorry for so many questions. As you can tell, I haven't done frozen before.

"I had a litter recently from semen that was frozen 7 years ago. I've been waiting to put this together for almost that whole time but had to wait for the appropriate female to use."

I understand that, but does that mean now that you will run on the puppies you kept and not use his semen anymore (at least with that bitch)?

You asked:
"I'm sorry Maureen, but I'm a little confused. Is the $250 flat rate for the surgical insemination itself? What about the cost to store the frozen semen for 11 years? Is that included too? "

No, the cost of having the semen frozen was about $600 and I have paid $60 per year to keep it. So, the entire set of straws (about 15 breedings worth) has cost me $1200 so far and I will continue to store what we don't use this time - at least for awhile. Many stud fees for champions today are $1000, so this is not out of line. The total cost for the surgical insemination by a vet and typical progesterone testing is $250 - which is VERY reasonable.

"And if it is for the insemination only, how can she be bred at the co-owner's? Wouldn't she have to be at your vet's office?"

Well, I didn't mean to confuse you - I actually tried to answer both your post and another one at the same time. The bitch that we will be doing the surgical implant on will be at the OnceFrozen semen center in Oklahoma City and she will be inplanted by a vet there. The paragraph about taking the dog (alive and well) to the co-owner for a breeding involves two entirely different dogs. This was a natural mating (once we transported the dog) of my Nimloth Moriquendi Warrior and Nimloth Rumor Has It at Grimaldi - co-owner Deven Grimaldi. She should be due about December 6th or so.

Hope that is a little clearer.

Much clearer...Thank You!

I think those prices are very reasonable. I was always under the impression that it cost much more than that to collect and store. The surgical implantation also sounds much less than in my area. Thanks for the info

I have no reason to repeat the breeding. I'll save the rest of his semen to bring the line back in a generation or two from now.