please refresh my memory.
What is the timeframe to do an ultrasound? Is it 23 days from the day of the breeding?

If I ultrasound I do it at 28 days after first breeding. However, lately I am doing the Witness Relaxin blood test. It is done in the same time frame.
I would be interested to hear how many others do the blood test versus the Ultrasound??

Blood test here, can't change what's in there and don't want to harm the pups if I don't have to doing ultrasounds.
Aloha,
jackie

Original Question:

please refresh my memory.
What is the timeframe to do an ultrasound? Is it 23 days from the day of the breeding?

Poster:

Blood test here, can't change what's in there and don't want to harm the pups if I don't have to doing ultrasounds.
Aloha,
jackie


Not to be rude but that's not the answer to the question asked.

Each breeder has their own reasons for doing an ultrasound which may be very valid (for example keeping the bitch out of the show ring if she is pregnant or the opposite, being able to show her if the breeding didnt take.)

Is there medical documentation that ultrasound harms the pups? If there is it would be of great value to the breeders that do ultrasound even on occasion.

TIA

If you read my post right I said I don't do ultrasounds but I do do the blood tests to see if they are pregnant or not, what I meant by you can't change what's in there is how many are there and yes I have seen documentation about the harm that ultrasound can do to a litter and that is also causes some bitches to reabsorb some of the pups, had it happen to several of my girls so I stopped doing ultrasounds. There is a website that Becky posted backing this up but I didn't keep it so maybe she will post the link.
Aloha,
jackie

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Original Question:

please refresh my memory.
What is the timeframe to do an ultrasound? Is it 23 days from the day of the breeding?

Poster:

Blood test here, can't change what's in there and don't want to harm the pups if I don't have to doing ultrasounds.
Aloha,
jackie


Not to be rude but that's not the answer to the question asked.

Each breeder has their own reasons for doing an ultrasound which may be very valid (for example keeping the bitch out of the show ring if she is pregnant or the opposite, being able to show her if the breeding didnt take.)

Is there medical documentation that ultrasound harms the pups? If there is it would be of great value to the breeders that do ultrasound even on occasion.

TIA

I do an ultra sound at 28-30 days if I can't tell. My understanding is an Ultra sound is completely safe. I've never heard it was not. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Women who repeatedly have pregnancy ultrasounds (usually those in the field)tend to have smaller birthweight babies.

But, I would imagine that woman who have multiple ultrasounds are experiencing a high risk pregnancy. Otherwise, why so many ultrasounds? Maybe the ultrasound has nothing to do with the birth weight??

Not true, I almost lost one of my sons at 10 weeks into my pregnancy. I had 7 ultrasounds during that pregnancy and he had a normal birth weight of 7lb 15oz.

If you wait another 10 days you'll be able to see if she's bred.

I rarely do ultra sound, because usually I can tell a pregnancy by 4 weeks, however, recently I had a repeat breeding that I really wanted and thought it was a miss. I did the ultra sound at 28 days and much to my surprise, she had 2 pups in her, which turned out to be both females.

The Cornell repro vet recommends at least 28 days for ultra sound.

Do you U/S 28 days from ovulation or from first breeding?

I do them at 28/30D from 1st breeding. Actually I usually can see something by day 30 so I dont do them very often...

I also do the Relaxin test. I have found it to be more reliable than an ultrasound, at least in my vet's hands. He uses an ultrasound that was designed for sheep. I don't know if there are devices especially desonged for dogs that would be more reliable.

http://dog.draminski.com/#010

I felt the need to post regarding this thread as it went into ultrasounding during human pregnancy as well as dogs, I had many sono's during gestation 18 years ago. Some were indepth sono's, others weren't.

My son was born a full month early via section and weighed 6 lbs 10 ounces at birth (far from underweight at almost 36 weeks of gestation.) I had more sono's during my pregnancy than I will share done for some very good reasons (yes, a high risk pregnancy as someone else mentioned which was due to a previous premature birth that resulted in a 1st son that did not survive past one day of age. Also, this was an IVF pregnancy back in 1989 when the success rate was much lower than today and not as commonplace.)

I was resorbing my son's twin at 8 weeks of pregnancy, ultrasound on more than one occasion allowed us to view what was going on and not jump to the conclusion that I was miscarrying the entire pregnancy. (I did not know until then that I was carrying more than one fetus.) My beta subunit (HCG, the human pregnancy hormone) had dropped to half and I was bleeding heavily both of which are indicative of an impending miscarriage. As the pregnancy took me 9 years to achieve and was concieved via IVF after multiple tries it was a very special conception (not saying all aren't as special). Some other ob/gyns might have assumed I was miscarrying and done a D&C based on my symptoms and drop in my HCG level. The cause of that drop was the 2nd fetus being resorbed and came right back up the next blood draw, my son was still viable and his heartbeat was seen on ultrasound at 8 weeks where the resorbing fetus was diminishing in size. This is something that could not be viewed in any other way BUT ultrasound. Another fact in humans with twin pregnancies (some never know they have concieved more than one,) 50 percent of the time one is resorbed. If ultrasound was done more frequently that # might go up even further.

I spoke to my dear friend and ob/gyn for 26 years about this subject (any ill effects due to ultrasound during pregnancy) on many occasions including very recently and if there is any negative impact on the fetus he's unaware of it in his opinion after practicing more than 35 years. He's been published in past years in JAMA, ACOG and other medical publications over 100 times besides writing over 10 published books, some were medical text books.

During indepth conversations over dinner recently he said under NO circumstance did ultrasound ever harm a fetus or cause a lowered birth weight in his opinion and knows of no large studies here or in Denmark (where he was born and went to medical school) that prove damage to an embryo or fetus due to an ultrasound.

IMO a sono saved my now close to 18 yr old son at 8 weeks of gestation and allowed us to visualize what was happening within my uterus at that time. It is a very valuable tool for humans and dogs IMO.

JMO for whatever it's worth based on a brilliant man's opinion and my own experiences. BTW I never did an ultrasound of one of my girls but wouldn't hesitate for any reason.

Michelle

"Ultrasound technology carries potential risks that have not yet been evaluated, yet many doctors are telling women that there is no risk."
from:
Risks

"Evidence suggesting that ultrasound scans on pregnant women cause brain damage in their unborn babies has been uncovered by scientists. In the most comprehensive study yet on the effect of the scanning, doctors have found that men born to mothers who underwent scanning were more likely to show signs of subtle brain damage."
from:
Brain Damage


"Many women report their babies squirming or jumping away from the wand during prenatal ultrasounds."
from: Babies Jumping away from wand

"Are you being lied too? How would you feel if you found out that you were putting your unborn child at unnecessary risk for such neurodevelopmental problems as dyslexia, schizophrenia, epilepsy, retardation and autism? Would you be furious if you found out that it was your own health care provider that was endorsing your exposure to these unnecessary risks? Well, this just might be the case."
from: Are you being lied to?"

"(The US Food and Drink Administration (FDA) warns that ultrasound cannot be considered harmless, even at low levels, and is considering regulatory action against these companies)"
from: Harmless?

*******************
My daughter, Leigh, is a Natural Childbirth Teacher and we study the dangers of ultrasounds and xrays in regards to humans. The above links are not about dogs, but they are about ultrasounds and the process.
This post is not intended to dis-respect long honored procedures, it is intended to make you think for yourself about the potential dangers of ultrasounds.

Thanks for posting that Becky :} I didn't save it last tlme you posted it.
Aloha,
jackie

I was reading about supposed brain damage. My son, who I had 7 ultrasound with and who's grandmother is left hand, is right hand. I do not think she or the other left handed people out there think they are brain damaged.

Why do they think left hand people are brain damaged? Why is right handed correct?


Come on.

I'm with you. I had many more than 7 with my high risk pregnancy and there is nothing wrong with my son @ 17 (knock on wood) thankfully except he's a spoiled brat. I don't buy it after being involved in two women's fertility clinics, one being the one where Celine Dion conceived. Now tell her all of this, I'm sure she had at least 7 sono's also. She would laugh it of, I know it because I met her at both briefly.

The right machines in the right hands (as with everything)

I have to go for a 4d pelvic color doppler sono in NYC FOUR TIMES YEARLY for the rest of my life. Should I be shaking in my booties? I would rather know what's going on then have blinders on with my situation.

I'm outta this thread .. seen this movie on Woodhaven about xrays a few weeks ago and not going there again. It could get out of control here so I'm walking away.


Michelle aka Oy Vey


PS And what about color doppler's of the heart, are they damaging a dogs heart or are they looking for TVD or any heart anomalies?

Michelle, you, being a "high risk" are not the "norm"...
most people are the norm, and it is the "norm" that most of these sites are advising against routine ultrasounds.
There are actual ultrasound stations now in shopping malls selling an in-utero picture of one's unborn
fetus...dangerous at best in the hands of a person
who is not highly skilled with state of the art equipment. As our Mother's told us, "just because everybody is doing it, it does not make it right"!!!

Stating that routine xrays and ultrasounds are safe flies against much evidence to the contrary. This is not to say that there are those who must use these tools. Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Again, if only ONE person stops to think about what may occur with the use of routine ultrasounds then I have done my job. Small litters, NO litters,
smaller birthweights...these affect many of us. It is wise to consider any medical procedure for it's efficacy.

So that's what was wrong with my ex

"Why do they think left hand people are brain damaged? Why is right handed correct?"

I do ultra sounds 28-32 days. Never had a problem.

On the site that says "BABIES JUMPING AWAY FROM THE WAND" read their disclaimer. The opinion of someone who is what she calls the "site manager, who is not a trained health care professional?" No thank you.


"DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this website is not intended to be construed as medical advice and should not be used in place of medical care. The opinions contained herein, are those of the site manager, who is not a trained health care professional. Reduce speed ahead. No lifeguard on duty. Swim at your own risk. May cause side-effects. If ingested, do not induce vomiting. Contact a poison control center. Management not responsible for loss of life, limb, or property. Do not use while driving or operating heavy machinery. Proceed with caution."

WOW, I certainly did not mean to stir the pot with my question! Each of us has our own protocol with our girls, and I was simply curious...which is why I posted. Thank you everyone for the information! It is all being read and looked at.
To the Mom's who need the ultrasounds..Follow your doctors advice! To the Mom's of dogs who have a choice...do what you feel comfortable doing. To the rest please let us educate each other while still allowing each other to make up our own minds. Just because we do things differently does not make it the wrong thing, it simply makes it different.
Now everyone go hug a Lab, a child or someone special and have a wonderful night!!