Input and opinions; no flames please regarding breeding a Yc bitch to a pure for Chocolate; Cc stud for a litter producing chocolate and black pups. (Not a Cy stud dog.)

Is there any reason not to do a breeding of this sort and if so why? Have any of you done a breeding like this? There would be no Yellows so none lacking black pigment according to all charts. (Dudley)

Thank you for your input or experiences.

If you truly believe this is the best dog for you bitch there is absolutely NO reason why you shouldn't do it!

I've done with my foundation sire who was Yc and it produce a lovely Chocolate boy who went on to finish his Championship.

I've also consider breeding my Yy to a Cc eventhough all the puppies would be black they would all be byc and I would have many options on where to go from there. I really like this male and think he'd do well with my bitch. When it comes down it, it's about breeding the best to best right?

Good luck!

Dianne

I bred a CC bitch to a Yc stud. You just need to make sure to color test what you keep. In my case I kept a Cy girl ... when I bred her I was careful to breed her to CC or BC boys. If it is the right breeding for your girl in all other ways go ahead. I would.

Why bother testing what you keep? If you breed a Yc to a pure C, you'll get Blacks (that carry both yellow and chocolate) and Chocolates (that carry yellow).

Nothing wrong with it at all! I plan to breed one of my By girls to a Cc boy...he is a perfect compliment to her, and their pedigrees are of dogs of the same type, I anticipate "stunning" Bc and Byc puppies, LOL!
Like others have said, use the best match! Good luck!

Correction, Yc to Cc will give blacks and chocolates!

I would also test what I keep to know where and to whom to go from there.

I just bred a Cy bitch to a C dog and am hoping to have a nice chocolate puppy to keep from it.
Without the y factor on both sides there will be no yellow puppies so no pigment problems. I can expect only blacks & chocolates from this. Blacks will be Byc and chocolates wil be Cy.

No...if you bred two chocolates, you cannot get any blacks. From a Cy to a C breeding, you will get only chocolates, some carrying yellow.

Capewood: Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but you said you can expect black and chocolate puppies??? No, that is not correct.

A Cy (chocolate carrying yellow) bred to a C (full chocolate) gives you ONLY chocolate puppies. each given puppy has a 50% chance of being C or a 50% chance of being Cy.

MY TYPO!!! I bred a Yc bitch to a Cc male and will have black & chocolate puppies --- hoping for heavy on the chocolate!!! You are correct that 2 chocolates can not produce any blacks.


I just bred a Cy bitch to a C dog and am hoping to have a nice chocolate puppy to keep from it.
Without the y factor on both sides there will be no yellow puppies so no pigment problems. I can expect only blacks & chocolates from this. Blacks will be Byc and chocolates wil be Cy.

I just had an oopsie litter 7 weeks ago out of a Cc bitch and a Yc boy (didn't know he was Yc at the time).
Produced two lovely boys, one a nice dark chocolate, the other a black.
Guess what? I'll be running on both of them for awhile! LOL!! They are gorgeous!



Although I didn't do it on purpose, I do not see anything wrong with it. I will just have to be careful what they are bred to.

Just wondering where you think the blacks are going to come from out of a Cy and a C????

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Replying to:

I just bred a Cy bitch to a C dog and am hoping to have a nice chocolate puppy to keep from it.
Without the y factor on both sides there will be no yellow puppies so no pigment problems. I can expect only blacks & chocolates from this. Blacks will be Byc and chocolates wil be Cy.

I just said it was a trypo...........my girl is Yellow and carries chocolate --- bred to a pure chocolate she can not have yellows only blacks and chocolates. I am very excited about the possibility of having a chocolate keeper!

I just said it was a trypo...........my girl is Yellow and carries chocolate


OKAY there I go AGAIN ....NOT TRYPO but I made a TYPO!!!! I am going to stop laughing at myself now and go cook dinner!

LOL, I saw that later!

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Replying to:

I just said it was a trypo...........my girl is Yellow and carries chocolate


OKAY there I go AGAIN ....NOT TRYPO but I made a TYPO!!!! I am going to stop laughing at myself now and go cook dinner!

Who's on first????

Capewood, that's exactly my situation. My bitch is Yc (yellow but a chocolate carrier with wonderful pigment & a really nice coat.)I'm looking for black and chocolate pups out of her if possible.I will only use a pure for chocolate OR black carrying chocolate only stud dog to avoid dudleys (although they make nice pets I don't want to lower the amount of available pups for myself.) I was wondering if this was considered acceptable; many breeders never breed yellow to chocolate no matter what each carry.

Thanks for all of the votes of confidence; I feel better about it and do have a pure for chocolate boy in mind. He is the son of a Cy boy that I've always admired.(I would have bred to him if he wasn't Cy but his son is very nice and would compliment my bitch.) I hope to see both dogs at a speciality in the near future and will discuss this with the owner-breeder.

To all that replied; Thanks for the input

This is done frequently with no ill effects. The problem will come in the next generation. Be diligent in choices of breeding the offspring and you will have success.

Now please don't get mad at me but, there are so many different notations out there that people make up, I get hopelessly lost in these threads. And in Julie Browns, you can find every notation scheme known to dogdom.

There is an accepted notation that scientists devised and if we all used it, there would no be so much confusion. For the record, it works like this.

Bb - black carrying chocolate
bb - pure for chocolate
BB - pure for black

Ee - dog is NOT yellow, but carries yellow
ee - dog is yellow
EE - dog does not carry yellow

Any individual has one of the B combinations and one of the E combinations. The ee trumps whatever is on B and a dog that has ee will always be yellow.

Thank you. I understand what you are saying, I used the basic Yc to Cc terminology because honestly I forget all of the E's and e's. I need to memorize and completely understand each of them. I usually go to the Blue Knight site and utilize the chart there.

I also realize I have to watch what I breed to in the future, if I were to breed any chocolates resulting from a litter they would carry yellow.

I have daughters of this same bitch from her first breeding and need to DNA test them. She was bred to a Yy stud dog but 50% of that litter could also be Yellow carrying chocolate as she is. I need to know if they are pure for yellow or chocolate carriers when I decide to breed them. I am leaning towards a pure for black stud dog for one of them which would eliminate that worry.

Thank you for your lesson and chart. I appreciate your explanation and input.

I appreciate it also. I am bad about just going the easy route. I am printing this out. Maybe that way I can use it more correctly.

""""I just said it was a trypo...........my girl is Yellow and carries chocolate --- bred to a pure chocolate she can not have yellows only blacks and chocolates. I am very excited about the possibility of having a chocolate keeper!""""


I'm confused about how the above could produce nothing but chocolates. If it's eebb X EEbb than how can you get anything BUT chocolates. I would assume Yc and Cc that's what that would be.

Just trying to not be confused

I do not see what the problem is if the pick bitch is a dudley.

I know that you would not have sucess showing them but if it was the best puppy in the litter why not keep her and put preformance title on her and when she is bred fix the pigment in the next generation. We all know that some of the best brood bitch were not the best show dogs.

I think you need to pick the best stud for your bitch regardless of color.

And before any one shouts they can not be shown. A dudly is a yellow with chocolate pigment, so it does not lack pigment. I do understand that most all breed judges would not understand and you might have a fight on your hand not getting them excused and it would not be worth the money because even if everything else was perfect they would be faulted on pigment.

But why would they not be wonderful for your breeding program. It is not hard to fix in one generation were other problem take many generation to correct.

Just something to think about

EEbb to eeBb
Chocolate to Yellow that carries chocolate =

50% Byc and 50% Cy

EEbb to eeBb

No offense but I have no interest in having a Dudley. It is not improving on what I have or what I am looking for. Why would I want a dudley if my line has excellent pigment? I was trying to be sure that was just what I didn't wind up with by asking this question.

Thank you for your input but I feel it would be a step backwards for anyone trying to better what they already have.

A Dudley is a major fault in my opinion be it within a breeding program or in the show ring. I would rather not have to fix something that isn't broken at this point. We all have things we want to fix, as I said why create an additional fault to repair?

Thanks to everyone that replied, it's been helpful for when I make my upcoming decision.

My point was that you need to pick the best stud dog for your bitch regardless of color.

Example: You have a Yc bitch and are trying to improve on her front and bone. And the best stud dog for her is a Byc. He is the same type and has proven that he can improve fronts, bone and even coat. And it would also be a line breeding so even better, but there is that chance on a dudley. The pick bitch has everything you were hoping to improve except she was a dudley. I would keep her. Because she does not have BAD pigment, she has the WRONG pigment and the WRONG pigment can be fixed in one generation. But it can take longer to fix the other things. I would feel that if I kept the 2nd pick bitch that did not improve on her front then that would be the step backwards.

This example is not just for you it is for anyone. To me it sounds like you are breeding for color. You want to get chocolate from your girl. I was told long ago to not breed for color only. It is best to pick a dog for what it has that can fix what your bitch is lacking or to help set your type. I know that some have favorite colors. I do too but I have always picked my picks for their best qualities and not what color their fur is.

Maybe you can find the perfect stud that would not produce a dudley but all I am saying is that you do not eliminate the best stud for your bitch because of just that reason. You might not even get a dudley in the litter.

JMHO

Actually,I have not ever nor am I now going to be breeding for color. A breeding like I proposed would produce chocolates and blacks. I would keep the pick or picks of the litter regardless of color. Another consideration is a pure for black stud dog. Both studs I like for her don't produce yellow. I don't breed for color but would be exceptionally cautious breeding her to a Byc especially. If it were a Yy girl I wouldn't be concerned at all.

I have bred where the numbers said I would wind up with NBP and it didn't happen so I lucked out, I choose not to take that chance again. It will hopefully give me more to choose from if I eliminate the chance of NBP or a Dudley.

Thanks once again for your input and everyone else's. It was food for thought but not what I personally am looking to do.