The post last week regarding a popular stud dog got me thinking. What would really be beneficial would be for breeders to share (on a wider scale) what improvements they were able to obtain from stud dogs that are widely used. That way, rather than to use popular studs just because they are the "flavor of the month" (or year, as it may be), one could better ascertain what the stud might actually offer to their bitch.

And yes, of course I believe that the first one that should be offering such information is the stud dog owner. However, in cases where the stud is so widely used that it is unlikely that the SDO would really know or keep track of all improvements being made in different lines, breeder communication could prove quite beneficial.

So, would it be considered taboo to ask on a forum like this, "What improvements did you get from stud dog X"? If it was kept positive (is that really possible?)?

JMHO that the stud dog is only 1/2 the equation. For me the bitch line I have is very strong and so I have to weigh that very heavily. Then when you combine any stud with different bitches you will get different results. So while your question is valid, I am not sure that there could be a list of improvements like you are talking about. But if we could it would sure make my decision tree on who to use much easier!!

I bred to the flavour of the decade and accomplished what i set out to do- improved coat, clean necks, without losing fronts or head. and i got an even split so i could try to keep a yellow for myself (but we ended up keeping a black! LOL).

I went with flavour of the decade because i had a maiden bitch and he was a proven producer.

now this litter is still young, and i will be able to watch them all grow/mature to ensure what i got was really what i set out to do- so ask this again in 2-3 years please (hehehe)

I think the most useful all-around would be a webpage that had good stacked photos.

A "profile" of a dog would include any submitted stacked (good) photos of each parent, and then you'd have a table that had a good photo of the dam of each of his litters, and stacked photos of each of the kids and possibly good headshots. Notations like health, dentition, and temperament could be added.

It would not necessarily be a "I got great ___ with this stud," but a photo so you could judge for yourself. Everyone has a different opinion on what accounts for a good head, etc.

Before I had my pedigree software, I had built a few that were laid out like that for my own personal use. You can see trends in his kids that way.

Respectfully, I disagree about web page photos. I think most of us have experienced photos that made a dog (bitch or stud) look larger or smaller, better or worse. Pictures really can be deceiving either way. I think nice shots are important, but getting "hands on opinions" from others that know a dog, mentors, looking at get, and seeing the dog in person are as important. I also agree the bitch line is as important to know. JMO based on what I've been taught and learned.

Pictures can be deceptive. How many times have you seen a drop dead gorgeous outline, and for whatever reason the dog couldn't move across the ring in anything resembling a straight line? Or lots of reach, but no drive? Or the reverse? Or neither? I think you get my drift. That's why judges look at the whole picture....

I agree about the pictures. A good photography can make a dog look alot better than they are. And have seen some where the picture just does not do them justice. Works both way. Fun to play the game but, not a true picture. I like to see them at show and see how big or small how happy and outgoing. Have been shocked at some stud after seeing a picture.

Maybe some could ask about a dog giving their address and those who have use the stud could reply just to that person. Off line. Could that work ?

I've contacted a stud dog owner and said, "I want to improve X and Y in my bitch, how is your stud at doing that?" And I usually get a candid answer pro or con, and often a suggestion of a different stud that might be more effective.

Breeder Two, I have done that and I also have received honest feed back pro or con!!! Great Idea.

I think everyone wants an easy answer as to what will be produced when breeding x to y.

What ought to happen doesn't happen.Breeding is far from black and white. You can repeat the same combination many times with different results each time.

That might be a more realistic possibility. Sure, as others have pointed out, just because someone got X improvement doesn't mean that you will. But, if you fairly consistently see X improvement, I would think you'd have a better shot at obtaining it.

Not just what you get type wise. I like to know trainability. Some love to work alot, others just don't seem to have it. Outgoing pups or reserved. Mature slowly or hold together the first year. Know it would still be what your own female is offering to the mix. Some general info would be neat to have also. Guess, thats why we love to go to the show and see the offspring. Sometimes you can't.

You must remember too, that a lot of stud dogs just don't have that many get out there that are being shown so there are not photos available that show structure and 8 wk photos are great but you really need to see what those dogs grew into. Sometimes there is lack of get to photograph because the stud hasn't gotten a huge number of breedings or sometimes it is because the people who bred to the stud dog did not get their pups into show homes. Also when you are depending on people to write and say what they got- well - not everyone who says they got wonderful fronts- really even know what a wonderful front is. They may only have bred two litters and are still new to this game and ten years from now might look back and realize what they thought at that time was a great front truly was not.
The best tool you have is to look at results from catalogs from different specialties and see whose kids are winning. Now one specialty or even two might not tell you all that much because you don't know how keen the competition was or quite frankly how good the judging was but four, five, seven, specialties are going to give you better indicators. You can see these catalogs online at infodog.com usually. Also go to the Potomac and try to look at as many dogs as you can to see what you like out in the ring and then see who is producing this type you like. It is a great place to look for stud dogs.
Judy

How true! There is nothing like seeing them in person if you are able.

Sometimes I feel that there is so much more to it than who is winning. Personally, I've noticed that some of the big winners tend to be a little bit too much for me. But, that's certainly just personal preference and all the more reason to get out there and see them for yourself!

I have also found that some dogs look much different in the flesh than they do say in LQ or Julie Brown's Directory. Some for the better and some for the worse. Also you have to make note of what age the dog is in the photgraphs. Some dog's ads go in at an early age. By 3-4 the dogs have matured and you can really see a difference even in the pics.
Hands on is always the best if at all possible.