I am really worried about these coming to shows,especially ringside where there is a lot of confusion and crowding. And especially indoor all breed shows but outdoor shows also. Children and strollers put their faces right in line with dog faces, and all it would take is a dog on one side of the child to take offense at a dog on the other side and the child could be scarred for life. People with pets allow their dogs on long leads and they can initiate problems simply because their owners don't understand how to keep their dogs out of trouble. And unentered dogs can be in the way at a crowded show. Please people, tell your friends and non-show people don't bring your pets and unentered dogs and children and strollers ringside! Keep your unenetered dogs at home, or if you have to bring them, keep them out of the show area or in your car! And how do you explain this to strangers?

Worry about things you have control over, you'll live longer!

What if your dog accidently bit, hurt or even scratched one of these children, would you worry then? It was a topic brought up, if you dont't like it then how about not replying and moving on to something else.

Gosh, some of you have attitudes about simple discussions.

The last show I was at the kennel club had signs posted everywhere that there were NO STROLLERS ALLOWED. Maybe talk to the club/super hosting the event and make the suggestion.

Let other people be. As long as the children are not bothering anybody let them enjoy...geeeezzz!

Why bring up something that there is NO solution to. It is a topic that is a waste of time in my opinion. It is easier to just stop worrying about things like that!It's like worrying if its going to rain this weekend.What is the point.JEEEEEEEZ

I would have no problem with strollers if the people who were pushing them were considerate of others. I have been practically run down by them more times than I can count. Having a stroller does not give anyone the right to ram their way through the crowds. In addition, strollers are often left in places that block access to dogs and rings. If you are not going to be considerate, leave your strollers at home!

Also, if parents are not going to keep a constant eye on their children, they should leave them at home. I have had toddlers walk up behind my dogs and grab them, and while my dogs are even-tempered, it did startle them. Many dogs at shows would not have reacted as positively. Shows are crowded places and I have seen many parents so into their dogs that their kids wander off and then you hear an announcement over the loudspeaker. That is very dangerous.

Whether or not the kid is quiet, asleep, polite, or whatever, you've seen dog altercations at shows. Sometimes whatever or whoever is in between gets innocently injured. Even a dog foot can cause bad injuries to a child if the dog is intent on getting to something beyond the child or is simply jumping like a lot of them do. LEAVE the little kids home! If they want to see dogs, visit your friends and family. And I'm only talking about their safety. Dog shows aren't set up for young families. It's just not the right place to have that experience. Go to a zoo, or an animal park, or somewhere that is geared towards the age group and has safety measures in place for them.

This IS a serious issue. Most shows forbid strollers and flexi leads, especially inside shows.

If someone's stroller accidently rolled on a dog's foot and the dog retaliated, there could be a lawsuit.

If someone's dog on a flexi lead attacked another dog, there could be a lawsuit.

Besides the fact that people and dogs get injured, lawsuits make insurance premiums increase, which makes entries increase, etc.

Most people probably wouldn't give it a thought that is was wrong until they were told.

At the Wine Country Circuit, there was a sheet of paper in the catalog, explaining these things, which is a good idea.

NO I will not leave my children at home! My children and I are kind and considerate to other people and dogs. I do not appreciate being given dirty looks when I bring my children to shows. When the little one needs to sleep, the stroller is a good place to nap. We park it out of the way and make sure that no one bothers them. I think people should take every situation and person into account. NOT everyone is inconsiderate of others. Exhibitors are not always considerate of others as well! Many are too busy watching the rings and not watching what their dog is doing.
This was a terribly rude topic. This is suppose to be a family sport not just for empty nesters.

I agree, I think if there were a situation where a child were to get hurt it would be the dog owner's fault. I mean aren't you suppose to have your dog under control at all times? When my kids were small I use to go to shows, with them, it was a family event, not only were my dogs under control but my children were taught how to behave when out in public! Not just at dogs shows, but grocery stores, the mall anywhere, I think parents slack off in the area of behavior now a days, but even if the child were to scream or cry, I still believe the dog owner should have control always!

JMO

LTB

I wasn't trying to be unfriendly. I believe dog shows are a great family affair, and what better place to learn about purebred dogs, but there safety issues that need to be addressed. There are spectators out there that don't realize the dangers of having a child in a stroller or a dog on a long lead.

I don't think dog shows are the place for children either.
More than once I have seen children acting inappropriately - running, screaming, walking up to dogs and petting them without asking! It's distracting and DANGEROUS.
I do not think under the tent is a place for ANYONE who is not SHOWING a dog. There is limited space as it is and people are so rude about MOVING!
Just this last weekend I had to say excuse me 3 times to the same person while trying to get my dog into a ring for a class that was waiting for me! Guess what she had by her side?? Young child - apparently she felt she NEEDED to stand under the tent to keep said precious child out of the sun

If a child ran up and grabbed my dog (which has happened many times), it would be the PARENT'S FAULT for any injury to the child, not the dog's and not the dog owner's. Yes, owners should keep their dogs under control (mine are always on a short leash), just as parents should keep their children under control. My dogs are there to be shown (for which I have spent considerable $), not to be entertainment fodder for children. They should not be grabbed or even touched without permission. I am sure if someone ran up and grabbed your child, you would not blame your child for any injury that resulted. If you cannot control your children that is YOUR PROBLEM and you should leave them at home.

"More than once I have seen children acting inappropriately - running, screaming, walking up to dogs and petting them without asking! It's distracting and DANGEROUS."

More than once ( alot more) I have seen adults acting inappropriately. Actually, much more often adults, than children.
AS a mom, I get pretty annoyed by all the people who seem to act as if our kids do not have a place in this hobby. My son is a big part of everything I do and I want him to have fond memories of this sport as far back as he can recall.
Yes, you see a poorly behaved child here and there, such is life...EVERYWHERE.
We stay ringside as long as my son will behave and then we move on for a walk if it isn't int he cards at that time. If only we could ban the poorly behaved adults...the bad sports, the bitter people, the rude and nasty with nothing better than to worry about how to stick it to someone else.

If only all the owners could be as tolerant and kind as our wonderful Labradors.
Annie

"Why bring up something that there is NO solution to. It is a topic that is a waste of time in my opinion. It is easier to just stop worrying about things like that!It's like worrying if its going to rain this weekend.What is the point.JEEEEEEEZ"

YOUR post is a waste of time! You stop worrying about what other people post. Move on. JEEEEEEEEEEEEZ

I am really outraged by these comments. There are well behaved children at dog shows and people fully capable of pushing strollers. Do you want to complain about everyone there? I've met many more unruly and rude adults and aggressive dogs at dog shows than children. I can bring my small children anywhere I would like to and I don't like being told otherwise. I make my OWN decisions as a parent and certainly will not take the advice of a bitter person who is not a parent. And if your Labrador bite a child's face in reaction to another dog growling or a child picking up their tail then you have a lot more to worry about than children being present at a dog show.

Adults acting inapproriately are just as bad as uncontrolled children. The fact that there are poorly behaved adults does not excuse the bad behavior of ANYONE. I do not think it is rude to request that my dogs not be grabbed or touched without permission. In my mind that is a given but unfortunately there are a lot of bad parents out there that do not want to watch their children and then want to blame everyone but themselves when something happens. I love children. I do not like irresponsible parents.

Just like I said a POINTLESS topic. Let it go and worry about other things that you can't control like a nuclear war.

You guys have nothing better to discuss than focusing on kids who for all you know will kindle their love of dogs thru watching shows like these!

You feel the same as I reguarding kids, dogs and shows!

Finally someone with a brain!

While I truly believe children should be under control and well behaved while at a show, I do believe they are our future handlers...and they will also be the ones taking care of us when we are in the nursing home.

I have seen some instances where unsupervised children have caused not only issues with exhibitors, but also complaints from the owners of the property where the shows have been held. Clubs are liable for anything that happens on the grounds during these shows and people have a right to be concerned about uncontrolled behavior. I have attended HRTs where kids have been allowed to wander around the grounds and ended up in the line of fire of the gunners. This not only delays a test and interrupts a working dog, it is extremely dangerous. I know our club has had to deal with landlord complaints about damage to property at our specialty location due to both kids running wild and adults breaking rules. While these events certainly are family affairs, there are legitimate reasons for expecting that if children are going to be present, they need to be supervised by their parents. It seems like this is common sense but I have been amazed at how oblivious people can be when they are focused on winning ribbons.

Just a thought....
Isn't this narrow minded thinking the same thinking behind BSL and current dog policies??
We have all been negatively affected by this type of broad speculation and I'm surprised we aren't more tolerant of others and their two legged children.
One minute, we're complaining about our rights to bring dogs to parks or have them intact and the next we are trying to ban all children and other dogs from our events.
If the show were on the other foot, we would be crying 'target the irresponsible ones, not the responsible ones' so what gives

I don't agree that this is a "family sport" as someone said - certainly not for preschoolers. Once kids get to mid-elementary school age, it's much more appropriate. And there aren't just Labradors at dog shows. I would never consider bringing my child to a dog show in a stroller. Face to face contact with unknown dogs, especially when there are intact males along with females in heat... Even a 6 month old joyous Labrador puppy could cause serious damage with a paw in the child's face. We all know how hard some of them are to control.

I have no idea how my post ended up in thread below, but here goes again!
Sorry

No one is saying people can't HAVE kids, just that they should be kept in appropriate places and ringside at dog shows is not one of them!

Just for clarification, I am not speaking of kids say 6 years old and up, I am speaking of toddlers and babies!

This is a big discourtesy that people with kids are imposing on the people exhibting, the ones that have paid to enter our dogs in classes without distractions.

It's kind of like when you are trying to enjoy a nice dinner out and have to listen to a screaming kid in the next booth

I wasn't talking about screaming kids, rude people, or anything else when I posted. Just that dog shows have risks, and that children and unentered dogs don't need to be exposed to those risks, and they add to the risks. I could go on forever about rudeness at dog shows. I'm sure everyone could. No point.

This is why they invented valium and vodka!
If you can't stand kids - try one of either - better yet - BOTH!

Just kidding

I personally don't see anything wrong with
bringing a young dog to a show for the
experience of being around other dogs and
all that goes on at a dog show. Of course
they would be at least 4mo.old an fully
vaccinated.

As far as kids...I have 3 and I love my kids.
However, I would not dream of bringing them
to a dog show until they are at least 5yrs.
old and fully under contol. And certainly not
in the way of any exhibitor about to go in
the ring.

Kids under 5 don't really enjoy dog shows!
Take them to Matches. Or put them in a crate
where they are safe!

As far as stud dogs and bitches in heat??
If you cannot control your stud muffin by
now, you never will.

JMO after all..

Annie,
you might feel differently if you actually brought a dog to show, at a dog show, rather than being a spectator. It is a much different ballgame, when you are showing, rather than just spectating. It is harder to watch your kids, and your show dogs at the same time.

The way some young children are brought up today is part of the problem. Many parents are not as observant of or consistent with their children as they should be. I've observed it from dog shows to malls, museums and social outtings . I recently read it has happened in the homes of breeders and happened to me more than once.

They (SOME parents) don't like to gently reprimand their child when wrong for some reason. Now, I or we don't have to agree with the way someone raises their child but others also don't have to find it to be correct public behavior at a dog show.

If children were taught what is acceptable behavior, especially in public (many today are not, sorry if you don't agree with me) this problem would not exist or be mentioned on a posting board.

Scenario; "Hunny, sweety please don't hit that dog 10 times in the head with a stick" as Mother turns to continue her conversation, a very long leash dangling from her hand (pet pup at the end of it eating plastic.)

Perhaps some of these parents should watch re-runs of "The Nanny" if they exist. For the parents that handle their children and dogs with consistency this post is not regarding your parenting skills.

P.S. : Yes, I am a parent before someone calls me childless. I believe in appropriate behavior of children, adults and their dog be they show or pet.

What happened to the days when we young mothers would bring our kids to shows ... or we wouldn't be able to go? At various ages, babies came in backpacks and were handed to a friend to hold so a dog could go into a class or children sat in strollers ring side, played with other children while their parents showed their dogs or their clients dogs. All we need is our civil natures to prevail. I think these days we're making life way to hard. Maybe it's the nature of life these days.

"They (SOME parents) don't like to gently reprimand their child when wrong for some reason. Now, I or we don't have to agree with the way someone raises their child but others also don't have to find it to be correct public behavior at a dog show."

I completely agree. Since I have small children (6 and 2) I am often surrounded by lawlessness at birthday parties, the mall, playdates, etc and I am shocked and appauled by some so called "parenting skills". I also agree that toddlers do not enjoy dog shows and my 6 year old is just now old enough to come and watch and sit when necessary and I personally don't like my 2 year old to accompany me since I can't do much other than watch her and then I don't enjoy a dog show, however I don't like being told by someone that ALL children should not be allowed. Whenever I have brought my children I keep them controlled and I would only bring a stroller to a large outdoor show however I understand special circumstances and someone might not be able to attend and/or show their dog unless they bring their children so some understanding is in order. Also families looking for information on puppies and breeders attend dog shows and this is a good thing right? We don't want them purchasing from a pet store and we tell them to attend a show so they can't without their children!

Bottom line is that when you are in public with your dog it is up to you to be in control of the dog and the environment to the best of your ability. If there is a family standing there with screaming crazy children then I stand somewhere else.If someone bumps me with a stroller then I would give them the evil eye and say "Excuse me!" and again move out of the way. To come on here and complain about children and strollers at dog shows is really really ridiculous and as others mentioned pointless.

Wow, the original post here got WAY off topic.

I believe that many of the folks who come to a show are not just locals who knew nothing at all about it. In my experience, those folks are so few that the numbers wouldn't warrant discussion. But families who have purchased a pet and want to come to watch their breeder in the ring are larger in numbers, in my experience. We as breeders must remember that these families have not spent 8 hours per day for the last umpteen years discussing things like why a puppy without final shots shouldn't be hanging around a dog show and why un-entered pets are not allowed within so many feet of the ring, (ckc rule) etc. They rely on their breeder to tell them if there's something they should know, so while this is NOT to blame any breeders, I think the original post has some value, becuase it can serve as a reminder to us as breeders that it would be good if are telling our buyers about a show in their town, that we explain how shows work. The breeder of my first reg'd Lab told me about a show, and told me my pup was looking real good. She suggested I come out to the show. She likely assumed I knew more about the ettiquette of shows than I did, but I brought my pup. Thankfully a nice man saw me just outside and very kindly explained to me that it wasn't wise to bring pups in. So I didn't bring him in. Now of course, had it been someone rude and criticizing, I might never have attended another show in my life. As breeders we are all teachers and I feel this post has served as a good reminder of our need to share information like this.

"What happened to the days when we young mothers would bring our kids to shows ... or we wouldn't be able to go? At various ages, babies came in backpacks and were handed to a friend to hold so a dog could go into a class or children sat in strollers ring side, played with other children while their parents showed their dogs or their clients dogs. All we need is our civil natures to prevail. I think these days we're making life way to hard. Maybe it's the nature of life these days."

For some of us that is still the case and I just wish that things were still welcoming of that fact, but yes, you are right, things have changed and to most it is hard to understand a mom who doesn't hand the kid off to a baby sitter or who doesn't have family to leave her child with.

My son has never been left with a sitter and he is just about to turn 5. Call me a freak, I just haven't been able to trust anyone that much. Certainly hubby can watch him, but I really like him to come as well. It is through the dog shows we have gone to that hubby has come to be as interested as he is in my hobby. Even to the point of now looking at it as OUR hobby:)

I hope very much to connect with other moms with kids my sons age so that in the future we can help each other so we can all stay involved and not miss out.

Its funny...until you become a mom, you don't really understand how intolerant many people are of children...when you are responsible for trying to see the world as your child does in order to protect them, you start looking at all the mean faces and bitter people and it changes your perspective greatly.
Annie

I couldn't help but comment on this one. My son is now almost 10 and I have brought him to countless shows over the past 4 years. I DO think this should be able to be a family sport, provided children have enough manners and discipline not to put themselves in harms way nor be a nuisance to exhibitors. I, too, have been annoyed by children running around and distracting dogs in the ring. Sure, that sort of thing happens all too often. However, I don't think one should generalize ALL parents and ALL children. There are some of us out there that know how to parent and have children that can behave in this sort of a situation.

About a year ago, while I was attending a specialty, an experienced breeder and her husband, were also in attendence. He allowed his son to "tapdance" on the table that was outside the ring enterance as well as scream and shout. Later that afternoon,probably near naptime, his father stood directly outside the ring with baby in stroller. Baby proceeded to scream, kick the stroller while he was in it, and cry his eyes out. (The husband wanted to watch his wife show, no matter how the child carried on.) Needless to say, my girl on her down and back and her go around was a "tad" distracted and cautious. After the class was over, I went over to the husband and explained to him that obviously his son was overtired and this was not the place for him. (Next time I will just complain to a steward because this guy got nasty and right in my face and left the stroller stay.) I had heard earlier that the baby had been left alone in the same place for over 20 minutes, kicking and screaming. Why didn't anyone say anything? Well, the breeder was a member of the club holding the specialty and was not known for her kind temperment.

What was interesting was that after the husband responded to me in the manner he did, someone else who had witnessed his behavior, said to me, "I was going to ask him about using his one male as a stud, but after I saw how he treated you, I want nothing to do with him."

Yes, strollers do present a safety issue and I, myself, as a parent, would have never put my child in a stroller at a dog show. A backpack is much more sensible. All little ones have their meltdown times and parents must deal with it in a respectful manner. The children are our future and, at a proper age (over 5 or so depending on the child), are a great asset. My human son, age 10, is a wonderful helper. He sets up crates and takes them back down, brings me water or whatever I need ringside and holds dogs for others.

When dealing with children, use just plain old common sense and educate them on proper behavior. It is the parents that truly seem to be the problem.

I don't often bring my young children to shows because it is so much work. I don't get to watch the dogs much if I am parenting my kids. When I do bring them it is more often to outdoor shows where there is room to have frequent play breaks. We spend very little time under the tent because it is too crowded and hectic, and when we are, they are tightly supervised, the younger one often in my arms. I never bring the kids if I am by myself and handling my own dogs. But when my wife is dealing with the dogs and I have the kids, or visa-versa, we have had some great family days at shows.

To say children shouldn't be at shows is more of a knee jerk generalization probably by someone who has never had kids or have kids who are long gone. People who bring their kids and don't supervise them properly should be the issue here.

My kids love going to shows and as they are getting older do a pretty good job of watching. They have friends who they have met at shows. My kids know "the rules" about approaching other dogs. They especially love all-breed shows because they like checking out the other breeds. They like it best when mommy or daddy's dogs win.

As an obedience exhibitor, I train my dogs for distractions, but when the dogs are on their long downs and a kid in those "heelies" (the sneakers with a wheel in it to skate around) crashes into a trash can right beside the ring, its scary and distracting. My dog didn't get up, but that's not the point. Those things should be banned from show sites. They are dangerous to the kid, to others in a crowded building, and to the dogs that they may run into. What happened to normal shoes? I even seen some junior handlers (who show a lot in the breed ring) slap on those shoes after their class and skate around the show site - they've been in this sport since they could walk, they know they shouldn't be doing that.

I don't mind kids at shows, I really think its important to bring them - I was just a kid when I fell in love with dog shows, but parents should watch after their kids and teach them proper manners and how to behave at a show sight (and other places in public).

I would like to add that Worried and Concerned brought up a valid point and that this is a valuable discussion. She should not be criticized at all. Nor should the responsible parents who bring their kids but do it right. There are many interesting perspectives to this issue and I am sure any courteously communicated view point is welcomed by most of us.

"Had a Bad Experience" got right to the nut of what I was trying to say. A backpack is much more sensible. Gets the child to a safer height! I am sure that pet people don't really understand not to bring their dogs, but experienced exhibitors should know better than to bring a dog ringside that is not 100% calm and obedient. I've seen a well known breeder with one of their intact male dogs not even entered in the show, under the tent ringside. The dog was whining and trying to sniff bitches walking by... She was a member of the club so I suppose she thought it was all right, but the dog was in the way, annoying, distracting, and bothering other dogs. It's nice when you have a dog who will lie at your feet while you watch the show, but it's not the same if your dog won't do that.

"Experienced exhibitors should know better than to bring a dog ringside that is not 100% calm and obedient."

Well, if that is the expectation I guess I better stop bringing my puppies to shows!

RINGSIDE!!! As in under the tent where the exhibitors are getting ready to go in the ring... Or next to the gate which can get tipped over...

Complain, complain, complain...to the right ears!!! Sounds like it is time for more rule enforcement by clubs via volunteers! Otherwise..Hush about it already. If rules are printed and they are not being followed, then it is time for some enforcement, hmmmm? Now of course in the long run this would probably end up costing us more because our entry fees would likely go up if "guards" were hired.

Anyway, seems like a lost cause, just like telling people to be kind to one another. Some are, some are not and that is life!! Stick with the kind crowd and live longer : )

I have just a couple of thoughts on this one. And just so folks know, my wife and I have raised three children who are now out on their very own.

First (and this one is addressed to "breeder" who said something earlier about there being nothing wrong with bringing 4-month old puppies to shows), it is specifically against AKC rules to have unentered dogs on the show grounds. Sometimes there are some impracticalities to enforcing this; for example, if the show is held in a public venue such as a park and having general public users out for a walk with their pooch stumbling onto the show. But for knowing exhibitors to do this is pretty lame. There's a reason why AKC has this rule.

Second, I for one do not believe the issue is just having a child at the show, at ringside. I have very close friends who happen to have a child who is at the shows, and at the age of a year is very well-behaved. If Mom is in the ring, or getting ready, and the baby is getting restless (we all know what that really means )someone else pitches in to help manage the situation. In the end, there isn't a problem. But for every one of these I see, there are a dozen undisciplined, spoiled little creatures whose parents seem unable or unwilling to recognize and act upon unacceptale behavior. These are the parents who, when little Johnnie or Jane brings home a note from the teacher, instead of supporting the teacher and helping to correct the behavior choose instead to attack the teacher. These are the children that should not be at ringside, or on show grounds (or in that restaurant or theater or library, either). If these children were puppies, we would be calling the breeder to task for poor socialization.

Yep, I don't like cell phones going off in the theater, either -- but that's another whole topic!

I have held back posting as I can see this is a sensitive topic. I am a MOM, I am a dog breeder, I handle my own dogs as much as possible, and I am the Specialty Show Chair for the 4 Day Memorial Day Cluster in VA.
Greg is absolutely right concerning the AKC stance on un-entered dogs at a dog show, including puppies ~ It is against AKC rules. Additionally if you read your premium list in the "ATTENTION EXHIBITORS" section you will see that many many times there are no baby strollers allowed on the grounds or in the indoor buildings. There is also a sentence that specifically says "Parents will be responsible for children. Children must be kept under supervision at all times" I quoted this from and MB-F premium.
The strollers, children and un-entered dog rules are there not to restrict our ability to enjoy a show. But to enable us to enjoy it safely. The first time your club is sued you will enforce these rules. The unsupervised child who is bitten by the GSP he/she grabs or the show dog who is the nations #1 special whose paw is unintentionally run over by the distracted person pushing the stroller, or the cute un-vaccinated mixed breed that Bubba/BillySue brought to see all the fancy dogs who passes along parvo and kennel cough to all, these are the scenarios that attorneys smack their lips over. Sadly these are the things that we now have to consider very seriously. Sadly we are a litigious society and we who run the shows do not like legal fun any more than anyone else.
Again, this does not mean do not bring your children or the family to a show. It does mean you may not use a stroller and you must be a vigilant parent. It does not mean do not bring your vaccinated puppy you are running on who you would like some other breeders opinion on, but it does mean keep it in the van and not in the show building.

Directly in response to, "These are the children that should not be at ringside, or on show grounds (or in that restaurant or theater or library, either)."

What a truly shameful thing to say, especially on what is supposed to be an educational and enjoyable forum How does any one person (or dog) learn anything new unless they are exposed to certain environments, people, and are properly educated? Take a moment to assess your role and how YOU can do things differently. Dump your hostility and help those who are in desperate need of guidance, support, or information.

Nicely put Susan

Whatever happened to common sense and courtesy? Obey the rules of the show, control your kids and your dogs. Most of all - have fun showing. The Golden Rule should prevail! It's really pretty easy.
A