What about pregnant bitches and calcium? Some people say you should supplement - others say no way because it can cause eclampsia?

Do you supplement with a multi vitamin like Pet tabs and if so, one or two a day?

Someone give me the run down.....and also when do you boost their ration by 25%? after 4 weeks?

TIA

No to the calcium, food increase at 6 weeks gestation is w hat I do and it is by about 25%
Aloha,
jackie

I start increasing food gradually at 4 weeks.

My understanding is no to calcium supplements. The bitch will not be able to process enough of it on her own during labor if you supplement now.

No no no! Supplementing calcium can cause all kinds of problems - unterine dystocia (slow/weak labor), eclampsia, maternal rejection or aggression towards the pups... Supplement calcium after whelping. I don't even feed puppy food until after whelping.

No calcium! In times of higher need for calcium in the bloodstream (for muscle contraction of the uterus) the body makes Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) to take the calcium out of the bones where it is stored. If you give calcium during pregnancy the body stops making PTH because it doesn't need it since there is plenty of clacium in the bloodstream , and then when the body needs more calcium during delivery there is not enough PTH to get the extra calcium it needs.

So, do you not recommend putting pregnant girls on puppy food?

Supplementing calcium during pregnancy is bad. I knew that before but now I understand the mechanisms involved much better.

So here is my question.......

If a bitch is having difficulty whelping, especially if contractions do not seem very strong, might giving a calcium pill actually during whelping be a good idea???

I used to put my pregnant girls on puppy food but I don't any more. I just keep them on what they are on. As for calcium pills, I doubt that the digestive system would process it efficiently during labor. Vets sometimes give injected calcium along with pitocin. I don't know the protocol for it.

I use no puppy food during pregnancy because of the calcium issue. For extra nutrition I put my pregnant girls of Eukanuba Performance. My personal protocol when whelping has been to give the girls a dose (1/4-1/2 cup) of gatoraid/poweraid/pedialyte with a crushed 1000mg calcium imediately after each puppy birth. Essentially this is giving orally what you would give via a drip if she were in a clinic. It gives them the extra energy plus calcium for the upcoming contractions.

Milk: what do you all think of milk during whelp? Small amount after every pup or 2 born. I have used this and I see a very positive difference. I also do not give so much it causes more runs.

Would appreciate any thoughts. TIA

My vet suggests giving one Tums with calcium between pups...seems to work well so far

I am not a vet but yes my vet would first try to give either a calcium shot if they are having trouble or have me give petcal to the bitch. He would use the calcium before trying to give the oxy shot. He also would have me give them Karo syrup to get the energy levels up and most times the calcium and Karo would get things going again along with walking the dog.
Aloha,
Jackie

I give them water with a couple of tablespoons of goats milk and some Karo syrup while whelping between every few pups.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

Milk: what do you all think of milk during whelp? Small amount after every pup or 2 born. I have used this and I see a very positive difference. I also do not give so much it causes more runs.

Would appreciate any thoughts. TIA

and do you give one a day or one morning and one evening?
TIA

Mark/Jackie

That's exactly why I was asking about Milk. I had asked my vet about whelping contractions and making them stronger before going to Oxi. He suggested milk. I started doing this a few years ago and it's made a huge difference. I dont over do it. I give maybe 1/4-1/2 C after the 1st puppy, and then just depending on what is going on a little after every pup or every 2. Really I have seen the difference so Jackie, I agree with you, not a vet but the calcium in it certainly helps with the contractions and whelp.

I give one just before she starts whelping, then one after each pup for the first three or so. My girls tend to have smaller litters and do take their time!

Neither. No supplements, vitamins, drugs, table scraps. Nothing but straight dog food.

Ok...I want everyone who posted to turn to the person next to them and give them a BIG HUG!! We actually had a post, a thread of conversations, different opinions, and it was handled with respect and genuine desire to learn! YES!!!

"Ok...I want everyone who posted to turn to the person next to them and give them a BIG HUG!!"

I have 2 doggies next to me but I sure gave them a big hug

Great, dignified discussion! The only thing I have to add is that opinions are diverse and experience is vast on topics like this amongst the Forum members. The one thing most people leave out (and say, "I don't believe I left that out" about) is that advice on this or any Forum is not intended to be a substitute for your vet. That's especially true, I think, if you happen to have a good reproductive vet. To me, the added value in having this Forum is that you have so many ideas to kick around with your vet when he/she is searching for answers to a tricky question. Of course, you need to filter through some of it but it certainly beats starting from scratch.

SusanMLL if anyone tells my Labs that they are not people it will just destroy them!

Greg ~ I agree with the "ask your vet" comment. A good vet is always up to a discussion about new thoughts and why he or she does what they do.

LOL Agree Susan Fenwyck (ok now that cracks me up)

A HUG from me too!

I begin Calcium after whelping it complete.

"is" complete, excuse me

Milk - Just welped a litter couple of weeks ago and we gave Mom a little bit of milk(1/2 cup) with about a tsp of sugar mixed in. Helps to keep their energy up. Did it about 3-4 times during the welp.

I read an article written by a Vet that specializes in nutrition ...it said.... pregnant bitches should be fed a food that is at least 29% protein
17% fat
5% fiber (no more than)
1-1.8% calcium
.8-1.6% phosphorus
I was feeding Evo before my girl was bred.....the calcium is 2.11 !! I could not find a grain free food with low calcium levels !! I had to go back to my Solid Gold to meet the nutritional numbers. I do not give any calcium before whelping....only yogurt after she whelps.

The dog foods have enough calcium that you don't need to give them extra, I used to do that too but was told not to anymore and milk supply is good without it. Just something to consider.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

I begin Calcium after whelping it complete.

I was told the other day that Tums, as a calcium suppliment, can stop the heart. Has anybody ever heard this? I never had.

I don't normally use a calcium suppliment while whelping, probably because I didn't know that much about it. It is something to consider. I do know what eclampsia is and the symptons.

I've used PetCal successfully after several litters were whelped. There were no issues during pregnancy, during whelping or after (no symptoms indicative of low calcium as in a bitch uninterested or upset with her puppies.) It's worked for me so far. I begin it when whelping has ceased comfirmed by a clean radiograph.

The only way I would administer it to a bitch in whelp is if a blood draw was done that showed me that a bitch was low in calcium. I have been told by my vets that it can be very dangerous until after all pups have been delivered if there is no cause for it.

May I ask who told you not to add calcium anymore? Was it a repro vet?
I'm glad to think about anything when it comes from a medically knowledgable source. Adding calcium after a whelping was recommended by 3 different vets over the years, one being a repro vet. Also, the food we each feed may be totally different. Then there are the breeders that feed RAW, that could be a large difference.

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Replying to:

The dog foods have enough calcium that you don't need to give them extra, I used to do that too but was told not to anymore and milk supply is good without it. Just something to consider.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

I begin Calcium after whelping it complete.

My vet injected calcium during a tough whelping. He explained that dosing was critical because it can effect the heart. He carefully listened to her heart after the injection.

I had an old time breeder friend who used to give her bitches a drink of milk if there was a lot of time between pups. She swore by it but could not explain why it worked.

I have been thinking of using Tums or calcium supplements during whelping for a while. Have been afraid to try.

Also I have wondered what recommended doses of calcium in regular food is for a pregnant bitch. I believe that info. was posted above (but can't see it now as I type).

great thread!

.....actually as I think about it...my vet gave a partial/small injection of calcium, then listened to her heart and gave a little more.

Nobody answered my question. Has anyone heard that Tums will stop the heart?

This is the only thing I could find regarding Tums From Mike Richards, DVM - in response to creating a raw diet and the need for calcium.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no problem with using unflavored Tums (tm) in dogs for calcium carbonate requirements. One Tums tablet contains 0.5gm of calcium carbonate. It is also possible to find calcium carbonate as the calcium ingredient in some human calcium supplements. I don't know the names but you could probably pick them out by reading the ingredients.
HOWEVER....given that we are talking about pregnant/whelping bitches I did find this for eclampsia - use of an IV Catheter for a slow, careful injection of a calcium solution under the close supervision of the veterinarian may be required. "Give too much and severe cardiac arrhythmia may occur." This is probably why the vet was listening to the heart during the process in the previous post.
Hope this did not confuse to many people.

Thank you.

"I was feeding Evo before my girl was bred.....the calcium is 2.11 !! I could not find a grain free food with low calcium levels !! I had to go back to my Solid Gold to meet the nutritional numbers."

Orijen is grain free and lower in calcium at 1.4 to 1.6 or 1.8 I believe.

I fed a 28% protein, 16% fat puppy formula to my last pregnant girl and during whelp i gave one tums in between each pup and she did fine. She did need a shot of pit after 3 hours with no contractions (in the middle of whelp).

I don't supplement with anything else during pregnancy. Take my girls off all vitamins and HW meds.

She was a bit growly with her pups (first litter for her) and I did wonder if that was a result of low calcium. However, she was perfectly fine after 24 hours and loving her babies.