I think this was mentioned before, but if a bitch, oh say age 3, is bred back to back 7 months apart, do you rest 2 cycles? I have no clue as it is usually 2 years between litters here. I am trying to have a discussion with a friend and have really no idea what to say. Breed, breed, rest then do you breed, breed again? For me, my girls have 2 litters in their life, so I am lost on this....thanks in advance......

Helpful info?


Canine Reproduction With Dr. Robert Van Hutchison

Transcript: A Chat Week Event at http://www.doghobbyist.com/CanineRepro.html

Question: I have been told that back to back breedings are actually safe for a bitch. What are your feelings on this and if you agree at what age do you feel the first breeding is best planned?

Dr. Hutch:

I normally suggest the first breeding after 2 years of age because that is when the health clearances are done. This varies by breed. Because the bitch is unique in that their heat cycle is progesterone driven, the progesterone in a non-pregnant bitch lasts just as long as in a pregnant. There is NO ADVANTAGE to skipping a cycle in a bitch and a uterus is probably healthier in a pregnant bitch than in a non-pregnant bitch .

Poor, poor darlings. Imagine being constantly in whelp or feeding and rearing voraciously greedy and demanding puppies with precious little recovery time in between the litters.

It is amazing how some breeders hang off every word of just one veterinarian and take it as gospel truth.
It wouldn't happen in the wild in a wolf pack. Wolves breed once per year and even then it is only the alpha female who is allowed a litter. And yes, I do know that dogs have evolved away from the wolf but they still share almost the exact same DNA and the same organs and body systems.

Why can't we learn a lesson from Mother Nature just for once?

There is nothing wrong with an occasional back to back breeding depending on the health, whelping history, length between heat cycles and how good a bitch looks and feels after a whelping.

I would rather breed back to back for example based on an 8 month heat cycle for a last breeding then have an older bitch whelp that litter another 10 months later and her being 10 months older.

Take each case based on their own merit. Dr. Hutch I am sure would say the same thing, he's not saying to breed every heat cycle or to have a bitch constantly in whelp, he's saying it's not damaging to do a back to back, it's the same as a heat cycle.

Use your own common sense, it's your bitch.

I personally think it's more damaging to have a bitch [or dog] in a van week after week after week living out of there on the show circuit constantly instead of doing a show here or there. But some people need to try to have a number 1 dog instead of having her home and not with a handler in avan That's Jmo

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Replying to:

Poor, poor darlings. Imagine being constantly in whelp or feeding and rearing voraciously greedy and demanding puppies with precious little recovery time in between the litters.

It is amazing how some breeders hang off every word of just one veterinarian and take it as gospel truth.
It wouldn't happen in the wild in a wolf pack. Wolves breed once per year and even then it is only the alpha female who is allowed a litter. And yes, I do know that dogs have evolved away from the wolf but they still share almost the exact same DNA and the same organs and body systems.

Why can't we learn a lesson from Mother Nature just for once?

"Just one veterinarian" happens to be one of the leading reproductive specialists in the world. There is a lot of valid scientific research behind him. Research beats imagination for me.

"back to back" breedings depend entirely on the bitch, her condition(pre and post whelp), and attitude. I have done a couple of "back to backs" with healthy, wonderful bitches who had 8 month cycles with no down side, but I have never done a "back to back to back".

"Why can't we learn a lesson from Mother Nature just for once?"

What does "mother nature" say in this case? If a bitch is cycling and healthy, that means she's able to carry whelps. I'll betcha a dollar if intact bitches weren't kenneled during their cycles that they'd get knocked up on every cycle! Is that the mother nature you were thinking of?

I am not an advocate of breeding back to back and my bitches typically have two litters, one year apart, and are then spayed. Those of us who like to show and work our bitches have a hard time picking the "perfect time" to have a litter between the competition. I can see times that a back to back would be done. But not back to back to back. And no back to backs with c-sections either, although Hutch will say that it doesn't matter either. I don't think they need to "rest" any longer after a back to back. Just skip one season. But there would have to be a really good reason why a bitch was bred that much, IMO.

Nancy, not taking sides on this issue but there are other prominent leading reproductive vets that are totally against back to back breedings. (Assuming a normal cycle and litter size) The reason is, when the leading canine reproductive specialist recommends a practice, common sense by "some breeders" is thrown to the wind and it gives them an excuse to either breed back to back to back, not look at the overall health of their girl, or taking into consideration how long it took to FULLY recover from her last litter in making the decision.

Yes it's best for the uterus to breed back to back, but I think we have to look at the whole dog, and I don't think it's necessary best for the bitch to breed her back to back.

Gregg, I understand what you are saying, and it doesn't seem like you are saying Hutch is wrong, more that there are other considerations and other opinions. Just the kind of information some of us newer folks would like to hear. I would love it if people would share a few other repro specialists names who have published information to read.

I got that the word these experienced repro specialists put out there has to be tempered by the knowledge that there will always be people out there looking to use their (the researchers) opinions and research as an excuse to do things the wrong way, or that will not take into account the information in the entire context of how it was meant.

I can certainly see how that could be as I have seen people throw around half quotes about everything else in the world as an excuse to all kinds of things, why not this.
Annie

I don't think it's "information" to use the wrong way at all. That has nothing to do with whether the bitch could have a litter back to back. Should she have a back to back falls under the decision of the breeder. Leave the bitch to her own recourse of action and yes, she'd be bred every single heat cycle thoughout her life, she wouldn't be wondering if she should, it would be mother nature and out her hands.

As responsible owners and breeders of domesticated dogs, it's in our hands. I for one have always agreed with the article. I think if you feel the need to breed a bitch back to back on ocassion, and the bitch is in good health, then why shouldn't you

Why do we place them higher than ourselves as women? I've had 3 children. No one sat by my side rubbed my head and said, "you poor dear" I don't think you should have another.

My bitches are weaning theirs at 5-8 WEEKS, saying goodbye to one's who aren't staying, have more freedom then I ever had, and have someone there to assist their every need.
I nursed my children until they were 8-9 months and they've been hanging around for YEARS.

It's like anything else, you can use it for good or evil.

I have done a back to back breeding a time or two. My girls don't come in but every 8 or 9 mos. Pups are weaned by 6 weeks. Girls are in beautiful shape by 5 mos. Sometimes you have a small litter. There are reasons. And I do believe what Hutch says makes alot of sense. Sure no puppy mill here, do good to have a litter a year. By the time they clear OFA'S,
show a while they are 3 years old. So they might have 3 litters. Think that is fine as well as they are care for. Puppy Mills. We just can't keep up with others. It is really none of our business. To many out there to try and do anything about. We can educate the public around us. I sure do with the puppy millers around here.

Not speaking from experience, but if it's safe with a healthy bitch, it almost would make sense to do a back to back, spay the bitch and be done with it...

"How can we possibly know if a bitch is going to be a good producer if she is in whelp again before the first litter is even 6 months old? How can we possibly know how sound the puppies are at such an early age? Where’s the fun in having back to back litters for the bitch or the owner? The uterus might be healthy, but what about the rest of the bitch? How could she possibly get back into condition in such a short time in order to do the miracle of birth scenario all over again? Reproductionists who suggest this are thinking from a very narrow prospective when the whole dog should be considered.

"Responsible hobbyists do not focus on how many puppies a bitch can make but how good her puppies will be. We should always be moving towards our ideal Labrador, trying to produce the very best we can with a goal in mind at all times. We should be breeding to keep something to go on with. There are no shortcuts. Novice breeders are often caught up in the excitement of a new hobby, buying several bitches, breeding helter skelter and on the advice of this current trend begin producing multiple litters. Much more would be learned by getting a bitch, doing all you can with her, learning a lot along the way at shows, hunt tests and obedience trials, meeting and talking to other breeders and watching dogs that will form the direction you truly want to go. Breeding back to back litters hardly gives you time to focus on what you’ve just accomplished before you’re knee deep in newspapers and pine chips once again."

Obviously, I'm against this practice as a general rule, but that's not what the original poster asked. I believe that back to back litters implies two litters in a row and a year's rest.