the actual naming of a kennel in a current thread makes me wonder?

If those ppl get the names/info on the folks posting is there a problem in store for them?


We can NOT and should not expect to "police" the whole world. I would think that doing the best you can as an individual and educating the public is a good way to start. IF someone is as vile and terrible as these folks have been portrayed then speakingh to their clubs etc might shake them up?

More rules and laws restricted breeders ROT, as they are the first step in all of us loosing control of our lives.

JMHO

I think I know the thread you are talking about but ...
The thread was about kennels who have have multiple litters and kennels who have multiple litters.
The kennel named was a kennel advertising on the internet they are having 13 litters, 8 in December alone. They post the litters on there website in public for all to see. I don't see how repeating that here, or pointing it out, constitutes slander.
If you don't want someone to think you are a puppy mill then don't advertise on the internet that you are planning 8 labrador litters in one month.

I toally agree with you. We can't police everyone, we can only do what we feel is best and help educate where we can.

As for if charges could be brought and won for slander, not sure cause it wasn't named by name as far as I know, but rather "hinted" at, which still isn't cool, but may turn out to be a gray area legally.

I personally would NEVER have so many dogs or litters at one time, it's just far more than I can handle. In general, I do not feel that there are many places that can handle it well. I also personaly feel that each dog should be a family pet and live in the house and get LOTS of TLC and never just be a "kennel" dog.
That said, having been to this kennel once a few years ago, I was shocked by the sheer number of dogs and litters, HOWEVER, much to my suprise, they all seemed very happy, well cared for, socialized, and loved. At least half were in the house at the time--many with free roam and curled up on the furniture like spoiled house dogs. This person, wright or wrong in how she handles her breeding program, loves her dogs and does spend a LOT of time with them. They are her life. She may be the "crazy dog lady" to some, but I don't feel she's hurting these dogs.

To be clear, I am NOT condoning or condeming this person. Even after having visited once, I do not feel I have enough info to judge her. I can only go based upon what I saw. Is her situation right for me, NO, but I am not her boss. All I know is there are many other breeders out there who breed with much less concern for their breed. She does clearances, she shows, and her dogs run the house and are not secluded to a small kennel or crate 24/7. Breeders who breed without regard to health or temperament or proper care for their animals are the real problem, not people who's only problem is having too many dogs, but those who can't or simply don't care for them properly. Should she have much less dogs, I think most would agree that she does not need nearly so many, but it could be so much worse, and we can't do anything about it anyway, so why not let it go. If anyone really can't let it go, they should try talking to her about their concerns in a civil way.

JMO

Thank you for your input regarding the kennel, but I think you are mistaken in what kennel you are referring to...just a clarification, the kennel in question from the OP was in California...

Ahh, you are correct. I was referring to one in PA. Thank you for clarifing. :)

What would the only possible reason be for anyone to breed eight litters in one month? ANYONE!!!!! Or even in six months for that matter? There is only one answer and it's quite obvious to those of us that care about the breed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. This is absolutley disgusting whether the dogs are happy or not. If I have a litter it is a cherished female that has marvleous attributes (and ALL clearances) that need to be preserved, and I keep from my litters. These people are the reason we will all be restricted on our breeding programs in the future at which time I will get out of dogs. Their situation does disgust me, and the bleeding heart theory some of you have for these people puts you in the same category with them. Oh and I have been in dogs very successfully for 26+ years with many owner handled champions and I am currently a judge. The attitudes here of some of you here that are ok with this breeding program of the kennel in question are equally disgusting.

Slander - harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech

Libel - harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast

Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
(Courtesy of Wikipedia)

So, just to clarify, it falls under 'defamation of character,' but since it was written, it is actually LIBEL.

I find it interesting that VERY well known breeders with lots and lots of champions who own 40 plus dogs, have litters all year, numerous a month perhaps, do the clearances, are never discussed. I think there are double standards. This is not to say they are not capable and do not have the means by which to really do a nice job.. just speaking there are definitely double standards. No way can they keep a puppy from every single litter and yet that's ok because of who they are and the status in the Lab world???

WOW about time somebody finally gets it! Its who you are here. I have been trying to make that point for days!

If I was to see that they were having 8 litters in one month???? I don't give a hoot WHO they are, it's wrong. I can't think of one single reason ANYONE could, should, or would even want to have 8 LITTERS in one whole month. I can barely entertain 8 litters in a total year.

I'm not condemning these people, yet. Making the comment that someone is having that many litters and it's advertised on the internet is just what it is, information.

NO..we can't police the whole world, but we can police ourselves as breeders. Ask the questions, turn it over to the local lab club. I'd be more than willing to listen to any reasoning that warrants that many litters in a month with an open mind.

I also have a hard time understanding why people just don't ask questions or go to the source. Stop back stabbing and just speak to one another for heaven's sake!!!!
Some of you act like it you mentioning a kennel(good or bad), the whole world will fall apart.
I hear a Jonh Lennon song playing in the back ground, but there certainly isn't any unity, backbone, or imagination amongst us. Stop worrying about who's winning, who's stud dog get's the most action, who got congratulated because they had a win and the rest of you are such poor sports you can't even say congrats. It's actually quite pathetic.

The puppy mills, byb's, and the single litter family have more comradely then we do!

Still not our business. Need to go play with your dogs. We can't change the world. Not your job.

#1 I care for and respect Jill, #2 I do not to lose the opportunity to post and to learn from other Labrador friends, #3 Because I thought others might want to know that their postings could jeopardize not just this forum but Jill as the host here is the "legal-eze" along with precident - -

Cyber Libel Issues: Can the operator of a website
be sued for libel for messages that are posted?

To date, actions for libel based on e-mails have been launched in Australia, England and the United States and have had varied results. For example a court in Western Australia found a publisher of a defamatory e-mail message on the Internet to be liable for $40,000 (Rindos v. Harwicke). An action by Dr. Laurence Godfrey of CERN, Geneva, Switzerland, for libel on usenet in England, was settled with the plaintiff accepting the defendant's payment of money into court (Godfrey). An action for an e-mail libel by an American businessman against a defendant journalist was settled (Suarez v. Meeks).

Current Principles Governing Liability:

Currently, the law governing owner/operators of computer bulletin boards or websites can be distilled into the following principles:

If the defamer is a disreputable publication or person, the statement could simply be treated with contempt, to avoid further republication.

A computer network service is not a "periodical", which would require an opportunity for retraction under the defamation statute of Wisconsin. (In the Cards Inc. v. Fuschetto 193 Wis.2d 429, 535 N.W.2d 11 C.A.).

Owners and/or operators of a network of computers are liable for defamatory material which they write and publish on the network, or receive from third parties and cause to be published on the network. Consequently, a corporation could be vicariously liable for statements published by employees.

If a third party publishes defamatory material on the network and the material is then retransmitted via the network, the owner and/or operator of the network may be liable, but only if:

they or their agents knew that the material was defamatory; or

they or their agents had reason to be suspicious that some or all of the material was defamatory. The nature and previous history of the newsgroup or mailing group where the defamatory material was posted, the previous history of the person posting the message, and reading the defamatory material are all factors which might spark the suspicions of network owners and/or operators.

Probably more than you wanted to know. But there you have it.

Well isn't that the world we've come to know! Thanks for proving my point. I am not afraid!! I WILL let the neighbor kid play in my yard. I WILL stand up for the battered wife in a walmart parking lot, I WILL pop my kids on the hiney for throwing a fit in the candy isle, I WILL report child abuse, I WILL stop two kids walking down the street from Middle School who are beating up one another, and I MOST CERTAINLY WILL talk about, ask about, and confront those doing things in this wonderful breed that are doing a disservice if that so be the case, and I'll do it without fear of retaliation, threat, or the law.

It is my right to do something and have an opinion as it is your right to sit back and do nothing at all because you can't change the world. That's a poor attitude, and nothing shall change as long as people continue to think that way.

How sad, if it's not worth fighting for, why bother, you should find another hobby.

I've been playing with my lovely dogs all morning and enjoying every moment with them as they have with me! Hope I can say the same for others. I have time for that, I don't have 8 litters planned for December.

Dear Here's A Thought - I understand and applaud your desire to make a difference, and I too allow the neighbor children in my yard, however I am also willing to stand up using my own name and email address and be counted officially when I have an opinion on this forum. Simply put, making a difference and putting both Jill and this forum in jeopardy do have to be considered when we post.

You quoted legal documentation, you didn't give an opinion. It's easy to post your name when you agree or side with the majority.
People stand on the grounds of posting their names when it's in their favor.

Just my 2 cents.

Tamlyn, I did not think this particular question that I commented on - "what is slander" - required a position statement from me other than to say what I did. And as to your alluding to the fact that I posted using my name because you perceive that I am part of the majority, I am sorry you feel that way because I am only me, just one person.
I have been wrong before, and I am sure I will be wrong again. Being wrong and learning are all part of life. Learning and teaching do not have to be done in a manner that is hurtful. Nor does it have to be done in a manner that belittles others as in the We Win - You Lose arena.

Susan, Did you ever get the feeling you are batting your head up against a stone wall? Why do some of you people have to be so negative? Talk about opticalrectitis (sorry if it is spelled wrong. I couldn't find it in the dictionary)!

When we post something right, will you please let us know?

Of the article about the internet. Try to find a good internet attorney that you can afford and take someone to court. So far there is no decent legislation regarding it hence this forum running anon to this day with anyone saying whatever they want. Free speech, it goes all the way baby.

As far as I saw no one was slandered, not even close. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what constitutes a large amount of litters for any given breeder or kennel.

If they want to advertise for business on the web, it's going to bite them in their behinds. There is a price for everything.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

the actual naming of a kennel in a current thread makes me wonder?

If those ppl get the names/info on the folks posting is there a problem in store for them?


We can NOT and should not expect to "police" the whole world. I would think that doing the best you can as an individual and educating the public is a good way to start. IF someone is as vile and terrible as these folks have been portrayed then speakingh to their clubs etc might shake them up?

More rules and laws restricted breeders ROT, as they are the first step in all of us loosing control of our lives.

JMHO

read the "Anonymity on the Internet" thread to see where it all can lead.

My moto is "Live and Let Live"

Unless someone is Abusing their Animals,
in which we would want to inform Animal
Control, or A.K.C., we have no right to
judge other people!

This is a "Free Country" last time I checked,
and anyone can do anything they choose as long
as it does not break any Laws.

Other people's opinion is only their opinion
and I am sure they are NOT walking in your shoes. How would you feel if, God forbid,
you did something that someone else did not like
or judged you in the way you are judging others??

We all love our dogs, whatever someone else does
or does not do should not be anyone elses concern.

You are not apparantly God, so what's the point??

GMTA bdr! For those that don't know what that means in internet lingo it's Great Minds Think Alike (like "lol" laughing out loud or "brb" be right back!

bdr

Truth is an absolute defense to either a libel or slander charge in all jurisdictions.

see above!

"Truth is an absolute defense..........in all jurisdictions."
Wrong!!! Not if you are in the US and are being sued by someone in Canada.

Just remember that in this country ANYONE can be sued for ANYTHING! Whether or not someone has been slandered, libeled, or defamed, is not always the issue. The issue is how much have you been damaged by such defamation? As most of us can attest, we are merely in dogs as a hobby and not a business, so if you cannot prove damage to your "business" most juries will NOT award damages. As one attorney has pointed out to me, you can spend thousands of dollars to try a case and yea, the jury may find that you've been libeled, but if you are a hobby breeder and can not show a loss of income due to such libel, then you will more than likely NOT be able to collect any $$$ as you really haven't been damaged.

In dogs, people say can say just about anything they want, remember opinions are like a*#holes, everyone has one. We just have to consider the source of who's talking the dirt and dismiss those who have no credibility. And because dog shows are a competition, jealously often rears it's ugly head and people, who are sour grapes, spare no expense trying to tear down the winners.

I think I've mellowed over the years and have finally settled into the mindset that I will do my own thing and not worry about what other breeders are doing. There are many things that I don't agree with, but by doing what I feel is right and ethical, then I feel good about that. It's all about being happy with yourself and what you do. Life is too short to be unhappy!!!!

Dianne

Quote: "...I thought others might want to know that their postings could jeopardize not just this forum but Jill as the host here..."

Stop worrying about or speaking for Jill already. She is smart enough to speak for herself! If the aforementioned post was potentially damaging to her, she would have removed it (at the least). She knows what she's doing.

I'm sick of people whining about this forum. Start your own forum and make your own rules if you don't like it here.