I have a bitch here with pups and my son just went to kiss her and she nailed him on the face so he has adhesions where she got him.... she was in the whelping box at the time nursing her pups... any thoughts on this?

I wouldn't allow this to happen in my house. Especially since the dog is very familiar with this boy. That is not a Labrador temperament to me. My girls welcome visitors and other bitches when they have puppies. I wouldn't keep her, but that just my opinion. I insist on the best in my kennel.

I think you need to give a lot more information here. How old are the pups? Does the bitch know your son? Was your son loud and scary? Had he been with the pups before?Was she c-sectioned, and in pain?

It is a DOG. Son leaning over box invading her! Think like dog not human nature. This could happen with the kindest bitch!

Bull!

I second the "Bull"!

In the 45 years of breeding Dobermans (yes Dobermans), Borzoi, and Labs, I have NEVER had that happen.

(quote)I wouldn't allow this to happen in my house. Especially since the dog is very familiar with this boy. That is not a Labrador temperament to me. My girls welcome visitors and other bitches when they have puppies. I wouldn't keep her, but that just my opinion. I insist on the best in my kennel.(/quote)

...overreaction.

You do not have ALL the story remember.

I have never experienced anything like this. If this bitch means the world to you, maybe you would be willing to work with it. If not, this is far from ideal and I think you should let her go and let another better natured bitch carry on your line.

MPO is any dog that bites, for any reason takes a one way trip, biting is totally unaccetable!! The only reason so I gues not for any reason is wrong, an injured dog would be excused, other wise the one way trip, it will never be allowd to happen again. I would never place a dog that bit as I know the potenial for a serious injury is there, and as a resposible owner it is my job to insure it never happens again!

Again JMO!

Could she have a calcuim deficiency? It sometimes does strange things to their personalities. Was she ever like this before?

I wont give any real advice here, but I will say that I have had to deal with a truly aggressive dog before and it broke my heart.
I tried to deal with him, but he was a real danger. It was such a hard decision and I agonized over it. I also really tried to figure him out and do something. ( he was a lab mix )
My personal feeling is that a situation like what you have vaguely described doesn't really compare. There is a huge difference between a dog who is just aggressive, and one who may not be in its normal state of being.
For those who jump to say that you wouldn't tolerate it, that may be an easy thing to say, but exactly what do you do with a dog you have deemed of such poor temperament that you would kick out of your home. I can understand questioning breeding her again certainly, but the choice to "get rid" of a dog due to this issue is a pretty complex one to me. Where do they go?
If you really think they are a risk you could be passing on a serious problem, even to a non child household. When we say we are responsible for all our dogs, I feel it includes trying to help any that don't live up to the lab temperament. Its going to happen from time to time and we should deal with it just like we deal with any other issue be it HD Thyroid issues etc.
Since she was bred to begin with I have to assume she had a good temperament up to this point so the situation warrants a little more than a knee jerk reaction.

don't misunderstand and think I am not taking your sons injury seriously, I would be mortified. But I understand the reality of the future of a really aggressive dog all too well to make snap judgments.
I hope very much she was just having a hard time understanding her surroundings and that your family can work this out. Good luck.
Annie

As most responses are from the ladies I thought a guy needed to chime in.

I say, give the bitch a break!

I am sorry, but how many of you have bit your husband's or significant other's head off when your hormones are raging? Did he place you? He may hgave wanted to, but I think not!

Let's not forget these girls are pack animals. Even though we think we have domesticated them they have major instincts; especially after giving birth and nursing a litter. That is why most bitches can whelp their young on their own. Hmmm ...Does survival of the fittest mean anything here?

Besides, are you trying to tell me that a mother cannot protect her young? Didn't you when you first gave birth? And don't/didn't you protect your young until you wean them, hopefully, at 18 years of age?

I would first ask why the child was able to enter this bitches space to begin with. My opinion, BIG MISTAKE. The animal's instinct is to be protective and for a good reason. Oh ... And, by the way, it is her right! How is she to know that her young were not in danger?

IMHO she needs to be put in a quiet area where she can take care of her young free from disturbance. How many of you who are mothers were eager to accept guests after giving birth and carrying for a newborn? Cut her some slack and keep an eye on your kid and others who think they have the right to disturb her domain.

Well, having dealt with 2 dogs with poor/dangerous temperaments, I think we all know "where they go".

One was a rescue. We tried for 2 years. When I became too afraid, I did the right thing. The dog wasn't a happy dog. He was miserable. I did the right thing by him, and us.

The other was a purebred, purchased as a show prospect from a reputable breeder. Not a Labrador.
But a breed known for "turning" suddenly. That is what happened. So, one way trip for him too. Sorry. Breeder wanted nothing to do with him, in fact advised our decision was correct.

These were true aggressive situations. Nothing like what you are describing. I think I would be inclined to investigate further in your case. Calcium could very well modify a bitches behavior to that point.
So could an infection. How do you act when you are sick? Cranky? I bet you do.

I really have to say also, I am not sure I would have put my bitch in a situation like this to begin with. Meaning I would probably not have allowed my young son to get in her face to begin with. These are still only animals...

I can understand a physical or chemical problem, what I can't understand is have I had a bitch after pups with one and not knowing it! If the bitch had a condition that was advanced why was the child allowed in there? Where was the mother, who I assume is the bitch owner? To me either way not worth taking a chance, if you get bit by a snake are you gonna wait until it bites the second time? Plus would you tell potential puppy owners? It would after all be the RESPONSIBLE thing to do!

Very interesting thread, of course all these things are JMO!

Bravo!!!!!
For Once I second the guy's point of view!!!!

WHat would you tell potential puppy owners???

HOW About "I couldn't be bothered to watch my son and not let him bother a bitch and her puppies, so she did the right thing and told him to leave her be because I let my son pester her and her puppies"

We used to live next to the spawn from hell grandchildren of my neighbor and I can't tell you how many times we had to rescue our dogs/puppies from them, not even our Koi fish were safe.
Not all children are blessed with parents with common sense and letting a child in with a bitch who is NATURALLY going to be protective of her puppies is irresponsible. You have a responsiblity to allow your bitch the privacy and space to raise her young until she feels safe to allow others near her puppies. That said my girls will let us pick up the puppies from birth, but they will keep a very wary eye on others until that puppy is back in the box until the puppies are about a week or two old.
On the 2nd and 3rd day as their milk is coming in the get a bit more restless, their systems are flooding with hormones and calcium,then they settle down and are quite content as long as they don't get bothered.
You can't blame your bitch for protecting her puppies from a threat and while your son may be a good child she obviously percieved him as such. She told him what you didn't..... Too bad you didn't listen for the first warning.

And if you think that just because we have domesticated dogs they shouldn't bite you are very wrong. They will give you a warning and unheeded it will go toa bite. Horses will bare their teeth and bite if they feel threatened too, so don't pull the wool over your eyes and think this is not how they(animals) should behave, they are still animals as much as we think they act like humans at times.

Any dog I can't trust is "otta here". I won't have it, puppies or not. There is no excuse. A dog thats not trustworthy is a Lawsuit waiting to happen, bestides the fact that it's not the typical Labradors temperament I know and love. Color her gone!

My son is not a "young" son, he is well over 30 years old and he doesn't always get into her face he was checking on the pups for me while I was busy because one of them was crying and he bent over to kiss the mommy dog.

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Well, having dealt with 2 dogs with poor/dangerous temperaments, I think we all know "where they go".

One was a rescue. We tried for 2 years. When I became too afraid, I did the right thing. The dog wasn't a happy dog. He was miserable. I did the right thing by him, and us.

The other was a purebred, purchased as a show prospect from a reputable breeder. Not a Labrador.
But a breed known for "turning" suddenly. That is what happened. So, one way trip for him too. Sorry. Breeder wanted nothing to do with him, in fact advised our decision was correct.

These were true aggressive situations. Nothing like what you are describing. I think I would be inclined to investigate further in your case. Calcium could very well modify a bitches behavior to that point.
So could an infection. How do you act when you are sick? Cranky? I bet you do.

I really have to say also, I am not sure I would have put my bitch in a situation like this to begin with. Meaning I would probably not have allowed my young son to get in her face to begin with. These are still only animals...

And as I said my son is not a young child but a adult who is well over 30 years old, i'm not a idiot that would allow a young child with a bitch with pups unsupervised, my days of having young kids are well past!

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WHat would you tell potential puppy owners???

HOW About "I couldn't be bothered to watch my son and not let him bother a bitch and her puppies, so she did the right thing and told him to leave her be because I let my son pester her and her puppies"

We used to live next to the spawn from hell grandchildren of my neighbor and I can't tell you how many times we had to rescue our dogs/puppies from them, not even our Koi fish were safe.
Not all children are blessed with parents with common sense and letting a child in with a bitch who is NATURALLY going to be protective of her puppies is irresponsible. You have a responsiblity to allow your bitch the privacy and space to raise her young until she feels safe to allow others near her puppies. That said my girls will let us pick up the puppies from birth, but they will keep a very wary eye on others until that puppy is back in the box until the puppies are about a week or two old.
On the 2nd and 3rd day as their milk is coming in the get a bit more restless, their systems are flooding with hormones and calcium,then they settle down and are quite content as long as they don't get bothered.
You can't blame your bitch for protecting her puppies from a threat and while your son may be a good child she obviously percieved him as such. She told him what you didn't..... Too bad you didn't listen for the first warning.

And if you think that just because we have domesticated dogs they shouldn't bite you are very wrong. They will give you a warning and unheeded it will go toa bite. Horses will bare their teeth and bite if they feel threatened too, so don't pull the wool over your eyes and think this is not how they(animals) should behave, they are still animals as much as we think they act like humans at times.

I think we owe our bitches the privacy when they have their puppies,especially young ones, still in the whelping box. Think natural nest, what animal allow another female animal into her nest?
My bitches have super temperament and would accept almost anything but I never even put them into that situation that someone can lean over their whelpingbox and try to cuddle their babies.
They should not have to think "protection" when they are with their babies. A son at the 30´is probably not living in the house. He is an intruder to her and if he wants to say hello to the mom, why not let her come out of her nest and be cuddled by him. And while she is out of her box, he can go there and have a look at the babies, without the mom there to feel he is trying to do something nasty to them.
I don´t think this has anything to do with aggression. This is just a normal thing for a bitch when humans do not act normal.

I've never personally had puppies in my home, but I can tell you I have visited several litters, and watched whelpings.

I've not ever met some of the girls previously, and I have not been bit. I don't dive into the box, but sit and watch.

Last weekened, I was right in the box with a first time mom who was whelping, she doesn't know me that well, and she never once tried to bite me.

If she has never been like this before, I'd have an ionized calcium run.

If she has, out she goes!

So would people just walk into a pack of wolf bitches who had a litter and do the same thing.
Dogs are animals with pack instinct not human behaviour.
If people say they should not or tolerate this, then why do people go so far into having a seperate area away from other dogs and humans to protect the bitch and puppies. Why do people have a seperate whelping areas? Why not just let the bitch have her puppies anywhere and anyone can go up to them.
So an animal does not have the RIGHT to protect itself from THREAT/HARM/DANGER

So would you allow a male dog just to walze in her area and then expect NO reaction.
If the bitch had a temperature and was ill ,would you think the same way,no people would not.

Every living creature has its own space limits.
So if someone was coming at you with a knife or threathening you in some way, you would just stand there and say" thats ok you can do whatever you want, I don't mind because I have good sound temperment beacuse I was bred well and have good genes".

Oh for God's sake. It's a mother dog and puppies. All bets are off. She could be calcium deficient which could make her aggressive. She could have been thinking he was a threat to her pups. For all the talk about how dogs should eat like wolves, why can't we give this girl a break and let her regress when she's hormonal and has a litter of pups she wants desperately to protect? Bitches don't behave the same way when they have young pups as they do normally. Give her a chance for the hormones to settle down, and meanwhile, treat her whelping area, her pups, and her with great respect. She'll be fine.

I would give her a couple of Tums a couple of times a day just in case she's lacking in calcium.

I was anxious to read your reply! Amazing how everyone jumping to conclusions. Your son is an adult!

I would have her calcium level checked asap.

First: who says you are the first guy to reply?

Second: Biting husband's head off is a figure of speach I have never "bit" my husband.

Any mother that lets a child in the whelping box
with a new mom and puppies is just insane in my
opinion. Why would you trust a dog 100% that
has just given birth?
Would you let your child out in the street
assuming that the cars will stop??
Too bad you are not as protective of your
human child as you are your puppies.
Sorry but dogs will not ever think like a
human and therefore cannot be trusted 100%.
Now your son will more than likely never want
to get near another dog again..
JMO

You said you were taking care of a crying puppy - I don't know about your bitch, but my bitches get a little stressed when a puppy cries, particularly the first day or two after whelping. I'd never expect them to bite, but if the bitch was worried about a crying baby, then had a virtual stranger lean over her, I probably wouldn't blame her for telling him to back off.

That said, yes, I'd be a bit concerned about calcium level - get that checked, but give her some tums in the meantime!

"Any mother that lets a child in the whelping box
with a new mom and puppies is just insane in my
opinion. Why would you trust a dog 100% that
has just given birth?"

I'm insane then. My girl Scout was overjoyed to share her new litters with my young daughters. She knew they would come bearing snacks and give her a break from puppy duty. I don't expect any less from her daughter who is due in a few weeks. My daughters are thrilled about the new puppies and will certainly be in the box any chance they get. When visiting my friend Laura Witts' new litters my daughters climb right in the whelping box and again her moms are wagging like mad to get some attention to and to show off their babies!!! So she is insane too! LOL Laura!!! ;0)

Just to add. . .
Were you in the room when the child was being bitten?
Did he come up to you after the fact and tell you what happened?
If he is a young child then he might have done something to frighten the mom.
Even if he is normally good with dogs he could have done something to upset her.
Dogs are still animals. Body language and eye contact still can imply a threat to a mother with her pups. If leaning into the box face first staring at the mom putting hand down by the pups may impose danger in her language.
Technically the dog would be a very good mother protecting her pups, even though being brought up in your house should have the dog know the difference between friend and foe, your child and stranger.
Now if you were in the room when this happened and saw what was playing out, correcting the dog immediatly would set the dog straight.
Just remeber this could be a problem set from both sides, both child and dog and it should not just be set on either one souly.
I'd give the mom another chance, but three strikes your out in our house, even if the dog is one of our best, we spay or neuter and put in a new home for an early retirement.
good luck in you discision.

Hi Anon, Is your bitch with puppies around your adult son alot and does she know him as a regular family member ? Not that that should be an excuse for her biting him but there has to be a reason she bit a family member and if her temperament really is a normal lab temperament, my bet is that your bitch's hormones and calcium levels are way off.

Unbalanced Hormones in bitches, be it humans or animals can be a wicked experience but I don't think Anon's bitch who bit her son is an incident all of us can be judging too harshly on. We're not vets and we don't know what is going on inside her girl's body.

Most of my girls who had puppies were raised in our home with daycare kids and lots of activity going around. The pups were raised in the whelping room but after our girls had settled in with their new babies, I would crack the door of the whelping room open and one by one, let my daycare children peek in to see the puppies with momma in there. My own children were always allowed to pick the puppies up and handle them if the dam seemed fine with it and most times they were A-OK with family members but I discouraged too much picking up of puppies until they were over a week old.

Anon, maybe you could give your girl some yogurt a few times a day and see if that helps. If she is being a picky eater try giving her some vanilla icecream. IF she continue to growl and or bite at family members,I would definately take her to your vets and get some blood work done to see if there is an underlying problem. Good luck

Your mom did ok. She warned him.She told him to back off. I assume if he(your 30 year old son)doesnt live at home anymore ,he could send signals to her, Enzymes are carried through the breath and skin of our bodies. If your son was himself uncomfortable going in there, the message was sent to her sense of smell.She was alerted to guard and protect.
The dog is a domestic animal. We (humans) do not think like a Cannine. We assume that they being a Labrador should not protect our homes when being robbed or stopping entruders. We think they can't bite to protect a injury, or react because of homormonal changes, and lastly maybe her pups aren't feeling well and she doesnt want them touched. Please give her a break. There is very good info on this site. Use it as a resource.

Very well put Tiffany1 saves me from sending just about the same message. Nobody bothers my girls when they have new babies.

Well for goodness sake!!! Your over 30 year old son should know better then to stick his face in a whelping box with Mommy and new babies!!!! DUuuhhhhh!

I guess my question is what was her temperament like before the litter? That tells me more than how she acts now that she has a litter. Her hormones or calcium levels could affect her personality.

JEEEZ Sharon I hope for your children's sake and after reading about what can and did happen to this poster's son, you will be more careful about letting your children climb in and out of whelping boxes, especially with other breeder's bitches. These are after all dogs. We can't predict human nature let alone what a dog may do.

Well than it sounds like your son is a stranger to this bitch??? NO???

He shouldn't have been anywhere near her box if he is not an immediate family member who LIVES there and she feels safe with him.

I don't blame her a bit!

I am with you Sharon, when my kids were litte they loved sitting in the whelping box with the babies.All my girls whelp in an area that is at times a walk through for all the gang, with the exception of the first week all the dogs can come and go as they please, they CAN NOT get into the area with the mother and babies but they can walk past the whelping box with a gate between them. I would be mortified if one of the girls bit someone whom they knew( strangers are not allowed) and knew well, if she wasn't like this before I would check her calcium levels, if nothing is wrong I would be spaying her and placeing her in a suitable home.

My son lives here and is NO stranger to this dog and what i'm not supposed to stick my face in there either to change the bedding and take care of the pups? DUH!

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Well than it sounds like your son is a stranger to this bitch??? NO???

He shouldn't have been anywhere near her box if he is not an immediate family member who LIVES there and she feels safe with him.

I don't blame her a bit!

Temperment has been fine before this, this girl is over 4 years old and this is her first litter and has been around many small kids and other people, has two majors for her CH too.

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I guess my question is what was her temperament like before the litter? That tells me more than how she acts now that she has a litter. Her hormones or calcium levels could affect her personality.

Maybe you should have read my answer before posting to see my son is an adult and he was only going to check on the puppies for me and knows this bitch very well geesh!

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Any mother that lets a child in the whelping box
with a new mom and puppies is just insane in my
opinion. Why would you trust a dog 100% that
has just given birth?
Would you let your child out in the street
assuming that the cars will stop??
Too bad you are not as protective of your
human child as you are your puppies.
Sorry but dogs will not ever think like a
human and therefore cannot be trusted 100%.
Now your son will more than likely never want
to get near another dog again..
JMO

You are talking apples and oranges here, this is NOT a wild WOLF it is a labrador retriever that is a domesticated animal and supposed to be known for it's great temperment.... no way you can compare the two sorry!

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So would people just walk into a pack of wolf bitches who had a litter and do the same thing.
Dogs are animals with pack instinct not human behaviour.
If people say they should not or tolerate this, then why do people go so far into having a seperate area away from other dogs and humans to protect the bitch and puppies. Why do people have a seperate whelping areas? Why not just let the bitch have her puppies anywhere and anyone can go up to them.
So an animal does not have the RIGHT to protect itself from THREAT/HARM/DANGER

So would you allow a male dog just to walze in her area and then expect NO reaction.
If the bitch had a temperature and was ill ,would you think the same way,no people would not.

Every living creature has its own space limits.
So if someone was coming at you with a knife or threathening you in some way, you would just stand there and say" thats ok you can do whatever you want, I don't mind because I have good sound temperment beacuse I was bred well and have good genes".

Again, I would check her calcium level. If her temperament has been fine in the past, I wouldn't worry about her.
Too bad some people don't read before they post an answer, huh? Your 30 year old son is a small child??

Did you let them go into other breeders whelping boxes also? My kids are grown and I can honestly say that none of their scars are from me gambling with their safety.You cannot predict what an animal will do when it thinks it needs to protect it's young. All a child has to do is inadvertently make one of those pups scream for help and Mom's instinct would be to protect it.If you think you can take the dog out of the dog you are living in a dream world.

AMEN!!!!!!!

Oh, I agree. I think the mother an the entire litter should be euthanized.

This is sarcasm, just in case anyone did not get it.

Perhaps if your SON was a DAUGHTER this may not ever have happened! Dogs know the difference between males and females.

maybe your bitch does not totally trust your 30 yr old son and then with pups and possibly a calcium deficiency she warned him off.....have you told us yet about the temperament of your bitch before puppies? how about the relationship of your son & the bitch before puppies...were they tight or just "co-habitators" in the house......expand on the bitch prior to her litter...

This summer my bitch had her first litter....2 days after whelping she allowed the resident kitty into her whelping box. If she would not have allowed normal household activites I would have questioned her temperament. I would be very wary of this girl who bit....

Oh for Pete's sake, let us not forget that even though these are Labradors, they are still ANIMALS and this is a situation that warrants a little understanding for that bitch.

You would think people would read the post before making the rude statements Please stop telling her to put her dog down, her girl might need calcium and that will be for a vet to determine.

Give her some Tums.

That is the dumbest reply i've had yet on this one, all the dogs ADORE my son, they will go to him over me anyday and I do all the care of them geesh!

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Perhaps if your SON was a DAUGHTER this may not ever have happened! Dogs know the difference between males and females.

I have a bitch here with pups and my son just went to kiss her and she nailed him on the face so he has adhesions where she got him.... she was in the whelping box at the time nursing her pups... any thoughts on this?

After digusting all this information, what do you feel you should do with your girl, and what have you done if anything?

Maybe some of these bitches are picking up on their owner's nasty temperaments. There seems to be a lot of that on here. Seriously... you've gotten some good advice. Check her out and give her some peace and quiet. Always look at the big picture when these things happen out of the blue. So many people THINK they know their dogs but they don't have the slightest clue on how to read dog body language. She may have displayed some very subtle signs that she was feeling threatened and he didn't see it coming. I think some people expect miraculous saintly behavior because they are Labradors but they are still dogs. I hate dogs that melt into a puddle upon examination by the judge almost as much as an aggressive dog. Both can be exasperating. Both can be perpetuated. Look at the big picture.

Okay I personally have to reply to this as I have recently given birth.

My tits are sore, my twat is sore, it hurts to sit stand or lay, My abdomen is quite sore as well. I'm a trooper I do what I have to do because my life doesn't stop because I've just had a baby, but I can relate to this bitch being crabby. My patients with my older kids and hubby can be a bit thin at times and if I didn't have words I may as well have bit.

But I also understand that because I'm not complaining they don't understand my pain.

Give the Gal a break she may be hurting or was just startled. Sometimes new moms are so wrapped up in our jobs we don't always see what's coming.

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha...I just shot coffe all OVER my computer screen, thanks a lot, ya gotta warn a girl, geez!

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Well for goodness sake!!! Your over 30 year old son should know better then to stick his face in a whelping box with Mommy and new babies!!!! DUuuhhhhh!

Thank You New Mom! I feel your pain! Been there and totaly understand.

Congrats on your new addition.

I hope the bitche's owner gives her an extra hug tonight.

:)

to new mom -
guess its ok if you bite your husband or kids then? nothing justifies a dog bite.

If a dog is hurting, it could bite. Maybe your bitch was uncomfortable and still sore from the whelping.

I had a first time mom, first pup was long difficult delivery, I had to assist. Fortunately, my husband had his arm over her neck or she would have flailed around and nailed me. Did I fault her? NO, she was in pain. And this was one of the sweetest bitches I have ever lived with and has gone on to whelp 2 more litters displaying no such behavior.
When I went to let her sniff the first pup, cupped to guard it in my hands, she growled and didn't want anything to do with it. I delivered each puppy, she didn't want anything to do with each one as I tried to introduce it to her. So we loaded up and off to the ER to have her calcium checked which was normal. Finished delivering puppies in an exam room. Finally, after the last puppy whelped, and as I was thinking OMG I have a bitch who isn't going to take to her pups, with my husband's and vet's help, we put puppies to nipples one by one, as she looked quizingly and you could see in her face that her whole deameanor had changed, she took to nuzzling and cleaning her puppies and was the best mom.