Can those fox red enthusiasts out there share bench style studs that are available today that maybe come from fox red lines or are fox reds themselves. I know that color should be the last thing you breed for, but I am interested to utilizing fox red lines. I know of the obvious ones like Keepsakes Brickhouse, Little River Redheaded Stranger and Kelleygreen's Crimson Tide II... just wondering with the shade becoming a tad more popular that there were some new faces out there

I saw Willie in person for the first time at Potomac, he is a lovely fox red boy. If I wanted to use a fox red stud dog that is where I would go, his owners are enthusiastic and know alot about the breed and the fox red labrador-- genetics.

Little River Redheaded Stranger


http://www.littleriverlabs.com/willie.htm

I would be more comfortable using a proven fox red (or any color) stud dog with these type of owners over a newer one out there but that's just my opinion. G-L in your search.

(Oh my, I read your post again and you mentioned him but I will post anyway.)

Do you feel there is a prejudice against certain colors? I feel I have detected a prejudice when it comes to very light yellow and red fox. I think we should breed for what we like. We pick the heads we like, we pick the other characteristics we like. Why should color be any different, as long as, we are not breeding for color only.

I can't think of the name right now, but isn't there a(By) black Borador dog out there who was recently campaigned whose (y) is fox red?

Sure you can breed to the color you like but don't you think you should breed to the best stud dog for you bitch as a #1 priority regardless of any color [barring producing dudleys if avoidable] or shade of yellow?

If it was me, I would definately be contacting the long timers who have been doing the fox red shade for decades. There are other lines producing fox reds as well, but your true "experts" will be a couple of US breeders and a couple UK breeders. These guys have been consistently producing champion quality fox reds. Oh, nice stud advertising as well........thanks for that.

Elken's Claim To Flame

Yes, you should pick the best stud out there for your bitch, thus is why I am looking for DIFFERENT studs that are out there that happen to throw, carry or are fox red... why not start with what you are working on, and then if that doesn't turn up anything then move on to other lines/colors. Why is it so evil to want to produce show quality fox reds... I mean there are breeders out there who prefer to produce chocolate for example. I am sure they look at C or Bc studs before they consider a Y or By

I thought you wrote RED SOX STUDS and there are quite a few to choose from.... GO SOX

Funny that nobody ever criticizes anyone for looking for a great black stud dog.

"Oh, nice stud advertising as well........"

Its ok to post stud dog wins, certain lines are ok to mention, or heck there was a whole gordy thread weeks ago.... but god forbid someone ask for advice on what is out there for fox reds

Darcy you are too funny!

Yes Sally Bell has a By dog that is throwing the red color.... But I need help on the name..... someone out there.... I think it is Smokehouse ?

Please lets not forget about....

Keepsakes Red Badge of Courage (Patti Block owns)
Keepsakes Cajun (Sally Bell owns)

I have breed to Brickhouse, Cajun, and Badger and I just love my pups from those dogs !!!

Good luck in your search !!!

Exactly the point. There are prejudices against certain colors, not all. Those who breed chocolate are not frowned on.

But they were, not very long ago....

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Replying to:

Exactly the point. There are prejudices against certain colors, not all. Those who breed chocolate are not frowned on.

I love all the shades of yellow and chocolate, and find the variations fascinating. I too would like to see a greater selection of top quality fox reds, but I'd also like to see some really lovely light chocolates. I think it's harder to find light chocolate stud!

Interesting, chocolate wasn't OK, but now is. Why can't we all be more tolerant and accepting of others choices?

Okay, Darcy - that will do, thank you. We Rockies fans have heard about enough! It's 3-zip now in game 4 and our studs have obviously gone temporarily sterile....

I happen to love fox red, I was not frowning on the color at all. Gosh, some things get twisted on here. That is why I don't use my kennel name anymore and rarely voice an opinion. And b.t.w. I don't have any blacks.

You are probably thinking of Ch. Boradors Smokehouse ( Keepsake's Brickhouse x Boradors Harbour Grace).

Also although no one has mentioned it, Scrimshaw Kennels had some famous "reds" that were bred. You would have to check whether they have kept these lines still going. Also Balrion, whose dogs' progeny are some of the most famous reds (Ch.Wynfaul Tobasco for instance), still has kept their red lines going. There is also the Kelleygreen lines, which I think were featured in LQ not too long ago. Whether they have any studs available would be something you would have to check out with each. Good luck!

YOu know I think this is an excellent thread. I didn't feel there was any advertising of stud dogs or any condemning of fox reds. I agree that you cannot just breed for color and the people who do that are usually byb who are just breeding for colors that they can sell easily. HOwever I do believe that when you want to try to have a certain color such a chocolate or fox red ( which we all know is really just a shade - although an elusive one- of yellow) it is important to try to do it in a way to make better quality dogs of that particular color. So it is good to seek out information from those who have that color and get a much info as possible. We, personally, are starting to dabble a bit in chocolates and I find it to be intersting challenge at this late stage of my life. I wouldn't mind owning a chocolate boy that looked conformationally like our blacks- I consider that a good goal to strive for. We all have to keep finding new goals and it helps to talk to others with more experience in an area when you are first getting your feet wet. So I think a good idea to discuss fox reds a bit. Our dog Blaze just produced a real dark puppy and I have sought out information from people who are experts in fox reds to see if I could learn if perhaps he did actually produce a fox red- now this is not advertising because A. I don't even know yet if this pup is even a fox red or just a dark yellow and B. Maybe its the mom that carries the gene if it is a fox red and Blaze had diddly to do with the whole thing. But it certainly got me thinking more about that color which I have always thought was pretty when on a dog of correct type and conformation.
Judy

Make that 4-3 and a done deal for the World Series Winning Bo Sox!!!!

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Replying to:

Okay, Darcy - that will do, thank you. We Rockies fans have heard about enough! It's 3-zip now in game 4 and our studs have obviously gone temporarily sterile....

Are there more fox reds out now? And are they being bred to a darker and darker color? I haven't been in the breed long, but have just relized about this shade of yellow. And some of the fox reds I've seen, I have a hard time calling a yellow dog, because they are so dark. Just curious.

I don't know if this holds true for the fox reds out there today, but I remember years ago, when we first starting seeing the color, almost all of the fox reds (that I was familar with) were carrying chocolate as well. It always made me wonder if the color was not more closely related to chocolate rather than yellow. Another thing that always struck me about them was the **harshness* of their coats. I've never seen a fox red with a soft coat.

Interesting thread.

Jill I think the reason for the harshness of the coats in fox reds is because of the darkness of the shade, as we all know, brunettes and red heads have coarser hair than blonds.

In respose to Stan and Dawn. Stan is correct the dog being referred to was CH Borador's Smokehouse; owned by Sally Bell. Also Stan was right about his parentage. Not all fox reds carry chocolate and the idea that the shade is related to chocolate is off the mark. It is, although elusive, a shade of yellow. Information about its origin can be found on Gregg's website and also Judy McCormick's website (keepsake labradors). Sally Bell has had some success producing reds from Smokehouse as all of the yellow in his pedigree is red. Good luck to the original poster. Quality fox reds are hard to find. Even if you do locate a younger fox red stud, in all probability it will be related to the prominent fox reds of today and the past such as Keepsake Brickhouse, CH Keepsake Cajun, Keepsake Red Badge of Courage, Little River's Red Headed Stranger, Kelleygreen's Crimson Tide, Kelleygreen's Kardinal, Balrion Red Alert or ENG CH Wynfaul Tobasco. The gene pool is very small, but dedicated breeders such as Judy McCormick, Sally Bell, Gregg Tonkin and Sally Bell have done a lot of work trying to increase the visibility of reds as well as improve the overall quality of the shade. Best of luck.

I also love the Fox Red. But why go to a son or grandson when you can use the fathers that produce them ? I would stick with Kelleygreen, Keepsake and
Gregg's lovely boy, Willie . Gregg has alot of information on his site. And most of the dogs did come from a few. Why not take advantage of their
knowledge.

Great thread, although I mostly follow chocolate lines, I don't see this as advertising. I wish we were more open to being able to ask a question such as Who do you think are some of the top black/yellow/chocolate dogs today? All it does is produce a nice list for the curious to start their research.

Well, its just that the fox red gene pool is so small. Lots smaller than the chocolate. Add the blacks that carry chocolate and you are talking right many nice boys these days. Helps to Optigen test with the chocolates. Opens up even more very nice stud dogs. But know what you are saying.

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I will just have to call the "big wigs" and tell them about our pedigree and find out what they think will compliment it

there is a BYC boy in PA who has produced some gorgeous fox reds. If you want more info on that dog e-mail me privately