Few among us would deny Study's merits. He is indeed a specimen! And few too would deny Mary's contributions to the breed or her rightful pride in her boy Study.

But am I the only one who thought the entire article in the recent Quarterly an unpaid advertisement, a study in self-promotion? What exactly is the editorial policy of the Quarterly? Will they publish ANYTHING that is submitted? Could I write a similar piece about my special guy and have it published?

Study's obvious merits and Mary's track record and contributions to the breed are unquestioned. But the editor of the Quarterly should exercise some restraint in accepting and publishing material that is so blatantly self-serving, IMHO.

oh boy, here comes a whirlwind of a thread. Tisk Tisk

can you say "infomercial"?

At least people pay for infomercials...just like I pay for my ads in the Quarterly.

Haven't you noticed that each issue of the Quarterly has a centerfold about a breeder? I was under the impression that Mary was invited to write for the centerfold for that issue by Hoflin.

If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Quarterly, not the forum. That was downright nasty!

Boy, now you all do sound jealous. What in the world is wrong with you. Nasty, to say the least. Looks like several of the little Knomes are out tonight. Maybe they are just playing Halloween tricks. Why else would they say such silly things. You go you pretty boy "Study". One nice stud dog.

I agree, this is totally uncalled for. The Centerfold has been a tradition is LQ for as long as I've been getting it (which is about the time dirt showed up... ) All of them are written in this genre - I just don't see the need to go after someone or their dog in this Forum.

I clicked "Post" too fast - I meant to add that when you mention names directly you should have the integrity to sign your real name. But that's just me...

I have admired Mary and her dedication to the breed for years. I have also had the pleasure to own some lovely Beechcroft girls and breed to some of her wonderful boys. I think that the negative remarks regarding her article in the LQ are totally uncalled for. I am perfectly willing to use my name to say YEAH MARY!! When I have her years in the breed, her experience and her knowledge I would hope that I am half as generous in sharing all of that with others. And if you cannot talk about yourself when you are invited to in a forum like LQ I would hesitate to figure out what else you could talk about if they are interviewing you about your dogs!!
I look forward to seeing other notable breeders talk about themselves in the upcoming Lab publications so I can learn more and enjoy their dogs and their dog experiences too.

I find it odd how much some worry about the promotion of others. I bet these are the same types who have an issue with people talking about litters or clearances.
Why worry about the "advertising" of others accomplishments if you are happy with your own?
I for one get really happy any time I see in print nice articles about any dogs I personally admire.
Annie

Breeder Two

Please don't blame the Gnomes. They're the good guys. It's the Trolls!

and might i dare say what promotion does Mary need?? shame on you.. after all she has given to the breed.
LeeAnne

Dear Not a newbie, either;

If you have a dog like Study, who has produced as nicely has he has - both in type and in movement, then, yes, please write away!

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Replying to:

Few among us would deny Study's merits. He is indeed a specimen! And few too would deny Mary's contributions to the breed or her rightful pride in her boy Study.

But am I the only one who thought the entire article in the recent Quarterly an unpaid advertisement, a study in self-promotion? What exactly is the editorial policy of the Quarterly? Will they publish ANYTHING that is submitted? Could I write a similar piece about my special guy and have it published?

Study's obvious merits and Mary's track record and contributions to the breed are unquestioned. But the editor of the Quarterly should exercise some restraint in accepting and publishing material that is so blatantly self-serving, IMHO.

I don't think the intention of the original post was directed at Mary or Study, quite the contrary. It was about the judgment of the editors of the Quarterly. Right?

Ya know...i do think Mary was asked by Hoflin to write that article...BUT even if she wasn't what is it to the original poster?????...got a problem, then call Hoflin! For all you know, maybe Mary paid for that space....why assume it was a free advertisement? The original poster should be reprimanded for posting such a ridiculous post. Study is producing BEAUTIFULLY and does deserve a write up in a Labrador magazine...whether is is requested by Hoflin, paid for by Mary or a "free" advertisement...it is a great piece..many people truly enjoyed the photos and commentary! If YOU don't think it is "fair" that Mary got to write about the dog of her dreams...then don't read that part of the LQ....

It is so sad when, Mary probably paid for the centerfold of her great dog ,AM/CAN.Ch.STUDY IN BLACK.
Can we please move on and ignore the nasties and just be happy for Mary.Look at the Positive response just from one thread. I bet she not paying for this advertisement... LOL. Enjoy the ride Mary and Study. I love my kids.

I think you are all reading the original post wrong.
It was not a criticism of Mary or of Study. In fact the writer praised both.
The post was about the editorial police of LQ or unpaid advertising.
Come on!

if it is ONLY about the LQ...then why did the poster mention Mary & Study specifically? Why not just whine about LQ & Hoflin in general...or better yet...just contact Hoflin...the mention of Mary & her dog is a nasty post...Please please please....

Wait until your turns comes IF it does which is probably why you wrote what you did... what goes around comes around and even if you have a issue with Mary or anyone else for that matter that is no reason to write what you did.... learn to be happy for others instead of bitter and jealous and good things just might come your way! I would have been so ashamed of myself to write what you did even if I did it anon!
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

Ya know...i do think Mary was asked by Hoflin to write that article...BUT even if she wasn't what is it to the original poster?????...got a problem, then call Hoflin! For all you know, maybe Mary paid for that space....why assume it was a free advertisement? The original poster should be reprimanded for posting such a ridiculous post. Study is producing BEAUTIFULLY and does deserve a write up in a Labrador magazine...whether is is requested by Hoflin, paid for by Mary or a "free" advertisement...it is a great piece..many people truly enjoyed the photos and commentary! If YOU don't think it is "fair" that Mary got to write about the dog of her dreams...then don't read that part of the LQ....

That is eactly what they wrote. How do we know if she paid for it or not.Mary can write. I love to read her stories. Who could do a better job or a better dog to write about. Wasnt he ranked 11th in the country? HMMMMMMMM. Give it up!!! I hear the word LIEBEL.

I bet if braveheart would be able to get ip address of this certain post and give it to hoflin and he and match it to his online order from ip address. Busted. I hope they then post your name and embarase the garbage out of you. You posted a Very nasty thread and it was un called for.

"Not a newbie, either!... well, I don't know who you are, but I can think of a few choice words for someone like you.
You ought to be ashamed... and you probably are unhappy about something in your life to have written such a post or you're just a terribly sad person.

I feel like I need to add a little to your "on the mark" comment about Mary.
I hardly ever post on subjects like this, in fact I believe this is the first.
I certainly draw issue to the tone of the original post of this thread. There are few breeders present or past that can match Mary's success over the almost 40 years she has been in the breed. Very few can match the impact that her breeding program have had on our beloved Labrador Retriever. Her dogs form the foundation for many of the breeders of today. Not only has she enjoyed almost unparallelled success in her breeding program but on top of this, she is an extremely nice person. She always has time for a kind word, small talk, or willing to pass on some of her vast knowledge to anyone, newbie or experienced breeder. When we first started down our road, she was one of the very few that would even acknowledge our existence and in fact made us feel like equals even though that was the farthest from the truth.
Study is just the latest in her long line of successful Labradors, who in their right mind would not be proud of him? Mary could have centered her article about any number of her past greats, how many of us could match that?
Mary is truly an Icon in this breed, if she wishes to brag on one of her Labs, she certainly has earned this right!

This place is so full of jealous, hateful people who have so much time on their hands that they think up all of these nonseses to spring on all of us. I feel so sorry for their dogs who deserve more than being with these people. How in the world can you go to a show and show your dog when you have so much hate and jealousy in your hearts? They, instead of having fun, spend the time trashing others' dogs. How sick is that. You hateful jealous ones need to shut up. And, I can tell you that you will never have the class Mary has, and that is the sad fact. Ellie

I really am not sure what your point is supposed to be saying. I subscribe to the LQ and the ILR, and the basis for these publications is promoting the most information they can about the breed. To accomplish this purpose and to attract their readership they try to get contributions by the leading breeders in the field to talk about their lines. They want the breeders to talk about how they started, how they got where they are, and what they are breeding now. Anyone fitting the profile is more than welcome to contribute, and quite frankly those of us interested in the breed, WANT TO HEAR THEIR STORIES and the opinions that come with them. This would include their reflections on what they think are some of the best dogs they have ever bred.

And your point was?

To the original poster, you should be ashamed of yourself. Probably a good thing that you didn't post your real name as I am sure you would receive some nasty emails from those of us who enjoyed reading that write up from Mary of Study. As a newbie to the sport I have to say that anything that I get to read about from the top breeders of Labradors is so appreciated. To be able to learn even a smidgen of their wisdom is huge. We recently bred to Study and he produced everything and more than I had hoped for. Thanks Mary for sharing and having the patience with us newbies. There are so few people in this sport that are willing to give us the time it takes to really learn!

Diane

I, also, thank Mary for letting me use Study.
I'm a nobody in the lab world, but with my bitch
& Study they produced some awesome pups. Wonderful
temperments, great coats, tails, movement. They're pretty darn good looking, too.

I guess that poster just had to pis.... off people today. I just don't understand these mean spirited people.

LIFE IS JUST TOO DARN SHORT!!

Donna

Mary is one of the nicest, most professional people in the sport. Does not matter if you speak to her every day or only a few times a year. She is ALWAYS available to lend a hand. Never a mean thing to say, willing to help anyone and everyone. We all should be so lucky to have a dog like Study and the ability to have years of our experiences written in LQ. Her name, her kennel, her dogs, they all represent what each of us should strive for: honesty, professionalism, Kindness and success (just to mention a few)

The "Centerfold" in that issue was Raintree's Slippery When Wet. The LQ centerfold dogs are well regarded dogs of the PAST who have contributed to the breed.

Have known Mary for many years and know first hand that she is honest, witty, smart, professional,and her dogs are top-notch. She has earned the respect of her peers.
Ditto to what Ellie and Susan MLL have said.

Normally i stay out of these threads...

I recently inquired about using Study on an upcoming breeding and was blown away by the promptness and friendly return of communication from Mary.

She was very patient with my questions and replied to everything I sent off to her. especially since i was inquiring 4 months in advance of the actual event.

I'm glad this post came up- for those that included they recently bred to him, it's given me a chance to visit your sites and watch your litter grow out of him- thank you

As has been pointed out, the article in question was NOT the "LQ Centerfold". It was also not the "Show and Tell", "Labrador People", or any other type of interview which is included in that magazine. It is an article praising the merits of one particular dog currently being shown and used at stud.

Before anyone jumps all over me for saying that, ask yourself if what I just said is factual and if there was anything hideously offensive or negative in the way I said it.

Mary has regularly written informative and interesting articles for the LQ for a great many years. This particular article was a deviation from the ones Mary has previously written and was listed on the contents page under "Special Features". I certainly don't know if the LQ asked her to write such an article as some posters have so strongly claimed. Perhaps even the LQ was unaware of the content of that article, but I am certain that the people getting upset about it here do not know the facts either. Many have demonstrated that when they said that Mary's was the "Centerfold" article and that is how "Centerfold" articles are written. Be assured that the "LQ Centerfold" article in that issue was Int. Lux. Neth. Am. Ch. Raintree Slippery When Wet JH, who was born in 1993. The original poster praised Mary and Study. It was the ones who jumped in under incorrect information to blast the ones who thought the article was inappropriate for anything other than as an advertisement.

I think what set people off is in the original post the name was mentioned and really, there was no reason for that. had the OP started the thread and discussed an article in LQ and feelings/opinions withOUT mentioning a name the reaction and thread may have gone a completely different direction.

Sure the original poster praised Mary & Study...but then they BLASTED Mary about the article being "an unpaid advertisment, a study in self-promotion"....there is no way around the fact that the original post was made in malice and ill intent! NOT very nice!

Did you really READ the article? It told of the trials and tribulations that Mary has had as a breeder. She's been breeding over 30 years, but it took THAT long for her to finally get what she was striving for. He is truly her 'Study in Black' because he has all of the qualities she'd been breeding for, and he's passing them along to his get, making him a wonderful producer, to boot. I, for one, appreciate it when long-time breeders share such stories with us. It tells us why we should hang in there, because we could 'strike gold' someday, too.

I think that even if no names were mentioned in the original post, someone would have brought it up as being directed at Mary's article and then blasted away. That is why so many people chose not to ID themselves. People read only what they chose to read. If there is an opinion expressed, everyone has a right to their own and to express it. What is upsetting is when people go off half-cocked under false or incomplete information as has been demonstrated in this thread.

What was the intent of the original poster? Was there anything instructional, helpful or even useful written in this thread? Absolutely not. It was inappropriate, nasty, mean spirited, and cowardly. If the original poster is dissatisfied with the contents of the LQ, then he/she should take it up with Hoflin Publishing.

Yes, Mary and Study were given praise, but the point was that she was getting free advertising. Mary is my friend and, I can tell you, she doesn't need to get free advertising. Now that poster needs to take this up with Hoflin and they will DEFINITELY set his or her sorry self straight. Oh my, would I love to hear that reply. Ellie

What right did she/he have to publically use Mary and Her stud dog study name in this thread,without her permission.I bet she would say no...GEeZZZZZZ What was her/his point?
This person,I feel, wanted to hurt Mary, Study and the beechcroft Labradors.
Mary "You are Rare Find in this breed world.You are warm, friendly, GENREOUS,and good advisor to anyone breeding for the first or tenth time .AND it doesnt have to be from STUDY EITHER. A great cook/ baker and gardner. The best grandma.a loving wife to your husband Micheal.A icon in the Labrador community."
If you have had the pleasure of knowing Mary personally..... You know she plays no favorites.Everyone is treated equally.You can pick her brain for hours. She is the true definition of a Mentor. I could go on... This post IMO was to be Nasty and Hateful to the most wonderful person in my life. It is a honor to know you,Mary.Im proud you are my friend. You should be ashamed that you delibertly set out to hurt her.... shame. Your intention was not to complain of Hoflin ways of doing business but rather ASSAULT Marys Integrity /Writings in the LQ for your own personal reason. ,

You know what also makes Mary so unique? She would never come to this forum and bash someone under her name or a hidden one. No reason, no subject,no person, no how, no way!! Just not part of her make up.

Sad sad sad.

You know, something else that has gotten lost here was how wonderful that layout was, just from a breeder's (any breeder's) perspective. How often do you get to see a stud dog, and then pages of his get, side by side? What a fabulous reference for anyone looking for stud dogs, or just studying Labradors in general. And isn't that the point of the LQ, when it finally comes down to it?
I second (or twentieth by now) Mary's contribution to this breed. My goodness, that should go without saying at this point. And yes, full disclosure, I have some Beechcroft dogs, and a Study litter that is just beautiful. I chose that breeding of course for a number of reasons, not the least of which is what he's producing. So nice to see all the kids.
My hat's off to both Mary and the LQ. What a great way to see a stud dog!

You would still have the Perfect picture of a Labrador Retriever. You wouldnt be so busy stiring the pot. You'd be making beautiful puppies!MARY I still have the picture in my head. Thank you a million times.

If the original poster is as "innocent" as he/she says they are, then come forward and identify yourself?

Mary is a class act, this whole circus is beneath her!! Enough said!!

Do you know what's really neat about this thread?

The people that read the Lab Quarterly are just a drop in the bucket compared to the people all over the WORLD that are reading this thread. Think about it. Talk about free advertising! LOL Way to go Mary and Study! It couldn't happen to a nicer person.

I agree. I loved the article. Once in a life time dog. Who would be silly enough to question anything about Mary and her dogs. Just silly.

This thread made me finally sign up for LQ
Annie

Just reread the first post and have to wonder who hasn't drank the kool-aid. People...first I do not see the "bashing" of poor Study or Mary as has been over played so far on this thread. And no Study was not the centerfold of this Quarterly. So it is out of place in this esteemed journal. Finally if the editors wished for a centerfold piece they should have put it in the next issue. Again I am no basher of anyone especially the wonderful pairing of Study and Mary but when 50 posts get it so incredibly wrong I have to ask where do I get that kool-aid?

Oh, please.Do you really think the OP was not trying to bash Mary?

"unpaid advertisement, a study in self-promotion?"

It doesn't matter what else he/she said about Mary. This
was an insult to a great lady. I was appalled. And, anyone who knows her knows this is not true. I just hope the OP does not complain to Hophlin, and make it so we can no longer read great articles by great breeders.

I'm one of the ones who cited the Centerfold - and yes, it is dedicated to past dogs (usually - not always). But my point wasn't to say this was or wasn't a Centerfold article. It was to point out that this kind of article often appears in LQ. I've one last thing to say on this subject, and then I'm done here.

Mary - like all of the rest of us - may or may not be here tomorrow. What a shame it would be to have to wonder what Mary's thoughts were of Study, and what her perspectives were of her journey as a breeder without having the benefit of this article! I would welcome any similar articles by any other other breeder with the credibility that Mary has - credibility bought and paid for through years of dedication, heartbreak, and success. And I don't give a darn if they come in the form of Centerfold, Special Feature, or whatever. There's too much "gold in them thar hills" to let it go to waste - mine it, and then start looking for a nugget of it in your own kennel.

OMG - I don't know where to begin. I am so saddened by Not a newbie either's post. If, in fact, its purpose was to question whether you could submit a similar article, why post to the Forum? No one here has the ability to respond about LQs policies. If you have a question, comment or concern, you need to direct it appropriately. Naming names in anything other than a positive manner is rude, hurtful and unprofessional and has no place in this venue. While I understand some people's desire for anonymity for questions and topics they may be uncomfortable with, I abhor anonymous posters stirring the pot or being hurtful. And if Not a newbie either's post has been mis-interpreted, why haven't they returned to the thread to further explain their intent? I've known Mary for many years and we've had occasion to disagree, sometimes for hour-long discussions. Her love and concern for our breed and firm belief that Study is a wonderful example of her breeding program are unquestionable. If we as breeders can't honestly say we're proud of what we're doing, then we need to take another look and perhaps consider making some changes. Wouldn't it be interesting for LQ to run additional articles exactly on this topic - where you started as a breeder, how you've improved, where you are now, and, most importantly, what the future holds? The most important fact I came away with from reading Mary's LQ article is that after 40 years of breeding, she loves and is proud of what she is producing. I hope to feel the same when I reach the 40 year mark!

Continued posting and bringing this up over and over is only dragging this out. Apparently different people have different opinions. I will not voice mine and add one more.

Why not let it be already? I am sure I will get a reply to this, no one will see what I'm saying which is to end it already, PLEASE!

Some just get to read at night. They work, have lives. So let them say what they feel. We sure did during the day. The person who started this just spends more time trying to cut down breeders, than getting out and improving her own dogs to get the brags. See is seeing the other side.

HERE, HERE GREG.

Totally agree.

Donna

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Replying to:

I'm one of the ones who cited the Centerfold - and yes, it is dedicated to past dogs (usually - not always). But my point wasn't to say this was or wasn't a Centerfold article. It was to point out that this kind of article often appears in LQ. I've one last thing to say on this subject, and then I'm done here.

Mary - like all of the rest of us - may or may not be here tomorrow. What a shame it would be to have to wonder what Mary's thoughts were of Study, and what her perspectives were of her journey as a breeder without having the benefit of this article! I would welcome any similar articles by any other other breeder with the credibility that Mary has - credibility bought and paid for through years of dedication, heartbreak, and success. And I don't give a darn if they come in the form of Centerfold, Special Feature, or whatever. There's too much "gold in them thar hills" to let it go to waste - mine it, and then start looking for a nugget of it in your own kennel.

I knew it, one that had to get the last word in. Good move. You might be the last straw to take down this board and for all we know you were the original poster. Can't you let this be already?

I'll keep your original post in at the end of mine that way you'll still have the final word - "the end".
I didn't want to start a new thread - and am not going to add much to this curr thread except to say a big thank you to those that contacted me privately regarding my last post.

I appreciate the links to your sites that have Study kids , it's re-confirmed our decision for our next breeding- not that i was having any second thoughts.

So while the thread has taken several turns here, it was beneficial to me so thank you!

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Replying to:

I knew it, one that had to get the last word in. Good move. You might be the last straw to take down this board and for all we know you were the original poster. Can't you let this be already?