Have many show bred dogs come up with Exercise Induced Collapse? I know it is the field stuff , but have not heard much about it in show stuff.
Thanks Bridget

NOT looking for names here , by the way!! Just curious if show stuff is prone also. I have show bred dogs and field/show crosses, and want to know for personal reference.

I am reposting an item I sent to a Lab chat list on the topic. I don't usually post here, but this is right on topic.
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About 7 years ago, I sent in a swab from a dog for a research study on Exercise Induced Collapse. We offered the sample because after reading a description of EIC, I realized that I had probably seen that in a puppy we had. She was older and had never had another occurrence, but I called the researchers and they did want a swab. She was owned by some folks in Canada by then and they were nice enough to comply. I sent in a swab from her litter brother. He had sired one litter and died a few years later. Today I got the results back ;-) Yep... my long-gone dog was a carrier.

So, now I am having his 8-year old daughter tested (they were nice enough to let me submit her to the research study). If she is also a carrier, I guess I will have her daughters that are in my breeding program tested at some point. The program director did not know when the test would be commercially available, but hopes it will be within the next year.

For those who think this is only a "field trial" line problem, the pedigree of the bitch who exhibited symptoms and her carrier brother is MOSTLY imported show lines. The sire is an import, the dam was out of an imported dam and an import bred sire..... so much for it's being an American problem or only in field stock. Welcome to the next DNA health test, folks.
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Here is a link to the pedigree for those who might be interested.
http://www.nimloth.com/u3litter.htm

wow, thanks for being so upfront. Nice to see some honesty for once in this breed!

That has been my policy for nearly 40 years. I don't see how hiding problems helps anyone - especially the breed.

You are 100% correct, wish there were more like you out there

Maureen
THank you for your honesty! I have had one other women reply to me privately saying that her dog had it. Mums the word for the rest , I guess.
I agree if people could be more open and honest about what thier lines carry or produce we could ELiminate many issues.
Thanks again for your response, I guess I will have to be carefull.....very carefull
BB

Maureen, do you have contact information for this research study?

When we first suspected Rusty of being affected, I sent out e-mails to the studies that were out then, but that was 2-3 years ago and I never had a response.

University of Minnesota
C/O Katie Minor
295 AnSci
1988 Fitch Ave
St. Paul, MN 55108

The initial stage is completed, but I think they are still accepting some research swabs from affected or relatives of affected dogs. Email minork@umn.edu

About eight years ago, I had a young bitch that was affected. It took FOREVER to diagnose her. She was show bred and actually had a few points before we spayed and re-homed her. It is absolutely in the show lines and we need to keep EIC in the back of our minds! Most veterinarians don't know about it, so you have to be pro-active if you suspect it.

I was wondering since it only occured once in both of those dogs mentioned in this topic, Could they of been misdiagnosed. I was also wondering if they where working in the field that could of been a stress issue instead of the symptoms of this disease, ex... worked to hard for a long day,sick, low blood sugar.
I just hate to point this out, I do believe there is a disease that does define this to some dogs and of course pedigrees. Siezures,diabetic dogs, thyroid symptoms etc. sometime produce many of the same signs as well. I would hope that people wont panic after reading this thread or ignore it as well.

I may be competely wrong but I think when you actually see the collapse you definately know it's not a siezure, etc. just in the way it happens. The scarry thing is that if we didn't take our dogs on long walks/runs (4-5 miles) we never would have noticed this in our specialty winning boy, and didn't for a long time as it does not always happen and when on our property running, fetching etc. it never occurs. Now, the problem is that if this is an autosomal recessive, as the researchers are believing it is, his CH father is a heavily used stud dog and has winning offspring across the country that are now being used which means in order for my boy to be affected, both his parents are carriers. His sires CH sire is amoung the top studs being used and his CH dam is a renouned female so one of them has to be at least a carrier. I think once the test is available the results may be overwhelming. Hope the test is available soon. I don't want to mention pedigrees or names as there is still a chance that I may be wrong, but I really don't think I am.

I agree... if you see an EIC episode, it does not resemble anything else. I had never heard of EIC when our Marie went down while roughhousing with several other youngsters. I ASSUMED it was something heat related, since they had been playing hard for about an hour, and immediately put her in the dog tub and ran cool water on her until she could stand in the rear again.

When I read the description of EIC, I knew that was what I had seen - it is not like any of the other problems in that the dog is generally LUCID and wants to continue the precipitating activity, but the muscles just won't cooperate. Marie only went down in the rear, because I was watching and grabbed her quickly before the rest of her body was affected. She was still trying to run with her front legs and seemed a little annoyed that she wasn't getting anywhere

So is it possible that this EIC condition could be passed on be one parent, carrier or affected ?? TVD can be passed on by only 1 parent, carrier or affected.

Someone mentioned that the study in Minnesota is showing that both parents need to be carriers or a combination of carrier and affected for their offspring to get EIC

I'd like to know more about how this disease is passed on to puppies. I know there is a local breeder in our area who has had problems with EIC in their show dogs here and there.

Something tells me that we will all be adding EIC to our ever growing list of health clearances before long.

Following is the statement from the research report.
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Based on our research the condition is most likely to be autosomal recessive, in which a dog needs to have two mutated (bad) copies of the gene, one inherited from each parent, to be affected. However, it remains possible that some dogs with only one copy of the mutated gene (carriers) might also collapse under specific circumstances. Further, it appears that a small percentage of dogs with two copies of the mutated gene have not experienced episodes of collapse themselves, but have produced offspring with symptoms.
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So... while it is assumed that it takes two carrier (or affected)parents to produce a genetically "affected" offspring, a "symptomatic" dog might have only one copy of the gene from one parent. This is very confusing to most people, but not unusual when delving into the genome. Often it is not just ONE gene that is at work and it takes a combination of "modifying" factors to produce a specific outcome. Think of it like looking at a black-nosed yellow Lab - the color is the result of TWO different gene loci working together to produce the outcome.

I don't know if my dog is one of the ones you are saying only collapsed once, but he has collapsed nearly a dozen times, at least once each summer since his first (not the summer he was born in, but the first whole summer). He collapsed probably 4 times in the first summer, maybe 2-3 the 2nd summer, and twice in his other two summers.

At 2, his cardiac came back with a heart murmur, and we rejoyced, as we thought that the murmur was causing the collapses. The collapse was gone a year ago when he was inspected at Michigan State. He collapsed again this summer, but just once, as it showed me that he was still collapsing without the murmur, so he was kept at home all summer. Now that the weather's cool, I take him for a small walk every day (except now that bow hunting season's open, I can't take anyone.)

The only other "option" is some form of epilepsy but no one, not even the vets, think that is remotely likely.

Hmmm, I'm wondering if this is what happened to my 3-year-old boy recently. He is not a stud dog, he's just my pet, but I'm wondering if I should now notify his breeder. We hosted a big dog event at the end of September and he was out running around and swimming in the pond with a bunch of the other dogs. I'll admit that he is not currently in the best physical shape and I noticed at one point that he was panting uncharacteristically hard, but he didn't want to stop and seemed to be having a ball. So I just made a mental note to watch him.

A few minutes later, he went to follow my fiance away from the water and his back end just collapsed. He kept trying to get up and wanted to continue retrieving bumpers from the water, but his rear legs just wouldn't cooperate. We got him up to the pavilion and everyone assumed he had overheated (it was rather warm outside and he'd been in my fiance's dog trailer prior to being let out to play). So we made up some ice packs and held them to his feet and belly. After a few minutes, he was fine. It hasn't happened since and it had never happened to him before. I have read about EIC, but it never crossed my mind until I read this thread. Does this episode sound like EIC and should I notify his breeder? He is show bred btw.

It soulds like it's possible that it could be Melissa as mine just wants to keep going and seems like he doesn't even realize something is wrong. After sitting it out for about 15 minutes, he is fine. I would mention the incident to his breeder just so there is a heads up and if they hear enough they may consider there is actually something wrong. When I went to my dogs breeder, who in turn also went to the stud owner, the comment was that there's nothing like that in their lines and the dog has been used extensively. As I mentioned earlier, my dog NEVER exhibits any symtoms running on our property, 20 acres, but he does on almost every outing so many people that may just run dogs withing a confined area may never see a problem.

"Think the problem is just beginning":

Can you send a sample in for your suspected-affected boy? As Maureen said - hiding secrets doesn't help the breed at all. If you can email me privately I'd really appreciate it!

where can we get clinical diagnosis... symptoms as well. what is the college that is doing the study?
when a dog passes out doesnt their muscle give out and the hind legs are the first to go.To much oxygen to the brain causes the same reaction. I think it is also known as adreline rush, I would think that is it was a breathing problem ,,it would happen in a vigorous play as well as a 4 to 5 mile walk. The dog stops really fast or from a exhausted exersize and will pass out sometimes . It does not mean he has a heart or breathing problem. Not to be funny or sarcastic but that seems a long distance for a dog that isnt in shape or for that matter in shape. My dog was hit a car one day and the same thing happened to him, I brought him to the vet and I told her what had happened, she explained about the adrenline rush because of the accident.He kept trying to walk just like you had discribe and was fine in a moment He is a house dog and is twelve years old. He has never had this happen. No flames please my question are of only best interest in the breed.

Read some of the information on the topic and I'm sure it will answer many of your questions. Here is one link
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/documents/EIC-July2005.pdf

If you Google (or Ask) EIC and Labrador, you will get a lot of links to information on the problem.

A few weeks ago, I searched on EIC and found a video clip. The symptoms are not anything like a seizure, or heat exaustion. They are quite spedicific--the front of the dog keeps going, but the back end is down and out. The dog is lucid, and like others have said, appears annoyed that the back end won't cooperate.

If the dog isn't stopped and put under control the dog will die. I believe that cooling the dog down with a cold water bath and keeping the dog quiet are the first steps that need to be taken.

MK

It's also very important to remember that a dog can suffer a collapse while swimming, and drown. You HAVE to watch out for the early signs of a collapse when you are swimming a dog that has EIC.

thanks Maureen , very interesting topic.I think after ready these articles... We do need to address this. Since 1percent of the lab population can be effected or carriers. Do you think until they can identify it for sure,do you think these dog lines should be removed from the breeding program? Even if the labrador is three years old and only a sibbling is effected? Just getting imput.

You wrote:
"Do you think until they can identify it for sure,do you think these dog lines should be removed from the breeding program? Even if the labrador is three years old and only a sibbling is effected?"

That is a difficult question for anyone - and has to be decided by each breeder based on individual criteria and priorities. In my case, we didn't know what Marie likely had when the episode occurred. By the time I had discovered the information on EIC and decided that was likely what caused her problem, she had been sold and already had 2 small litters. She was not bred again, so it was a moot point. Her brother that I owned (the one that tested as a carrier) had already sired a litter here before I found out about the study. He went sterile (infection while on lease), so never produced any more pups either. For me, it was a self-limiting problem that didn't require a choice on my part.

I will say that I am not sorry things turned out this way so the gene was not spread further. I have one daughter of his in my breeding program (now retired) and two young daughters of hers that I hope will turn out nice. I am having the older bitch tested to see if she is also a carrier and will test the youngsters if she is. At this point, the DNA test is NOT definitive. Remember Optigen's first attempts As the test becomes more specific and reliable, I will likely add it to the growing list of routine screenings that help me decide on whether to keep something in my breeding program or ban it from swimming in the gene pool.

Here is a link to a video that was posted on Working Retriever Central.

http://www.vidilife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=03A99271-B9F3-4BF6-BC9D-B&vchrJoinMedia=03A99271-B9F3-4BF6-BC9D-B

Thanks for the link! I had not seen that before, but it is pretty much what happened to my bitch puppy years ago and I'm glad she never had another episode. It is distressing to watch, even though the dog doesn't seem to be in any pain or distress itself.

I am glad I opened this thread up !! It seems like a few had know idea about this, which is why I started it. I had not heard any show people talking about it , while it is a common discussion with the field people. I wish people would get on the full disclosure boat!!!!! Instead of not in my lines.........Maureen thank you for the education.
BB

site to sea...I hope all goes well with your dogs.. keep us posted with your guys.

I think we had one like this as well. We placed her as a yearling because of a wry mouth. She developed the collapse after placement.

If this was EIC it's from an extremely well known breeder and very well known lines.

I'm going to see if we can test her so I know for sure. It would be nice to be able to share the information with the breeders for their knowledge. I know I'd like to know if it was one of my breeding.

I did not say I had it , I was asking about it. I was asking for future breeding prospects....?

Anyone get the EIC video link to work?

I did...and on dialup, no less...

I have produced a dog that most likely has EIC and the owner reports he has collapsed multiple times. He is out of a well-known and HEAVILY used stud dog. The sire has been linebred on often and is a foundation sire for some of the top winning lines of today. Conformation lines only on both sides.

I have submitted samples of the dam, two littermates, and several half-siblings to the research program and also sent a swab to the owner to use for submitting the presumably affected dog.

Unfortunately, this is a single case and the mode of inheritance and expression is not clearly understood.