I thought all the dog's on the litter listings had to have proper clearances. I was looking and three of the sire's listed say OFA prelim-hips good, elbows normal, yet none are listed at all on the OFA site, doesn't this get verified? just curious. I would think anybody could pay to have their litters listed that way. NOT trying to start trouble, just assumed it was verified.

Jill has provided yet ANOTHER great service for the people who read this forum. The OFA site shows final clearances not prelims. If you want to verify that a dog does in fact have OFA prelims request a stud packet from the stud owner.

Jill is NOT policing what other breeder's choose to do. If you are not comfortable using a stud with prelims then don't END OF STORY

Just a side comment, OFA does publish preliminary results in their database if the films were done when the dog is at least 12 months of age, it is permanently identified (tattoo, microchip) and the owner initials the box to allow publication. MANY dogs do have prelim results posted, but many do not because one of the criteria was not met. Most often it is the "permission" initials that are missing. If you want your prelims posted, remember to initial the form.

I knew they were published, but either way they would have an OFA number so CERF would be posted, none of them either.

I am just suprised that someone would put them at stud and not bother to publish prelims or CERF, seems.....................

There is no OFA number given for hips/elbows until the 24+ month evaluation. CERF data is NOT brought over to the OFA database until an actual CERTIFICATE of some sort is issued and an OFA# is added to the file. This is not necessarily hips, but can be a DNA certification as well - like OptiGen. If you look up any of the dogs that are listed with only prelim hip/elbow results, you will not find their CERF data on the listing.

Again... if the owner didn't initial the form or one of the other two criteria were not met, then the prelim results would NOT even be in the database. You may be expecting verification in places where none exists. If you have any questions, then the person to ask is the owner.

Get a Life Curious! There is no law that say's
owners have to have their dogs prelims made
public! Most breeders, including myself, don't
even send them in but have a specialist read
the results. That is normally good enough for
breeders that know how to read X-rays and trust
the Veterinary that did them in the first place.

Sorry some of us are not in this to please
"Miss Proper"

Maybe you might consider applying for a job
in the White House!

Breeder 1,

Please don't be so mean.

What it says exactly is that the dog must be at least 12 months, permanently id'd and -

"the owner initials the authorization block to release all results (including abnormal results) when the application is initially submitted."

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Replying to:

Just a side comment, OFA does publish preliminary results in their database if the films were done when the dog is at least 12 months of age, it is permanently identified (tattoo, microchip) and the owner initials the box to allow publication. MANY dogs do have prelim results posted, but many do not because one of the criteria was not met. Most often it is the "permission" initials that are missing. If you want your prelims posted, remember to initial the form.

I have big shoulders, it just goes to the point I have been trying to make for weeks! Depends on who you are! I do prelims on everyone here, I do occasionally breed on prelims, I AM THEN THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL!!! you guys are such a joke! keep on patting yourselfs on the back! LMAO!!!!!

When I started this post I really thought they needed proper clearances like it says, but I now know it means as long as you say you have them. So I'm good, got my answer.

I think it is fine for people learning to ask what is going on. We preach OFAS, OFAS and then go on to do what ever we want with the breeding programs. The newer breeders would be mixed up with all the different breeding programs we see on here. And it is funny that most of the litter listings this month are done on pre lims. To let you know there is still a large percentage of us who wait and breed at 2 years when all the clearances are done, posted somewhere easy for you to find, in your search for a nice stud dog and we feel like we have done all we can to keep the problems down for the new pet owners. Temperment and soundness, looks maybe third.

where does it mention ANYTHING about what clearances are needed to list on Jill's litter listing. in fact
it states that Wiscoy does NOT endorse any litter on
the listing

so why would anyone think there is some sort of clearance criteria to advertise your litter on this particular litter listing? if people would just "read" and not interject their own interpretations things would go so much smoother.

if newbies want to learn then first they must learn to think about the situation and the question they are asking and above all NOT to sound they they are passing judgement no wonder most of the reputable, successful breeders are gun shy to mentor any more
geeezzzzzzz

If you click on LIST A LTTER, it states

Please be advised that we retain the right to accept, or deny all Litter Listings.
It is our intent to list only well-bred litters out of parents with the proper health clearances.

that was copied and pasted directly from that page, go try to bother someone who is as clueless as you!

The akc does not require their litter listing to have ALL Health clearances. They have a a window pop up that desribes your practices as a breeder.
It is not agianst the "law" not to do health clearances. Jill has a litter listing link, period. You pay her to advertise the upcoming litters. It is upto the public to educate themselves on how to buy a puppy from a reputable breeders.It is none of anyone business what clearances they have or have recorded.Not everyone does practice the same as you or I. Be happy with what you are doing as a breeder.

Why is it that 85% of the threads on this forum end in a fight or bashing??? Never seen a group of adults act so childish in my life

Obviously, since one of my own litters is listed with the stud dog, (Brick) having his prelims done, I am not adverse to the practice. I think you will find that many young stud dogs are first used by their own owners, and again, after having **just** their OFA prelims done.

I feel confident in using a young dog that has a preliminary grading of **Good** or better, as the OFA 's research has shown the accuracy of prelims as follows:

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A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.

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Bottom line, if you are not comfortable using a young dog on prelims, then don't use him, it's your choice, plain and simple.

best regards,
Jill

VERY well said Jill - thank you!!