Correct me if I am wrong.

Canada 18 months one person reads and evaluates. Pass or Fail

USA 24 months 3 people read and evaluate? Grades Excellent Good or Fair.

I am thinking if this is correct why not wait and send radiographs to USA?

Any Amercians send to Canada to get certificate faster? Or, just do Prelims in USA?

I prefer to send to OVC because the same pair of eyes grade ALL the x-rays and I find it more consistent. Given that, I usually do wait until after 24 months to do clearances anyhow as I feel the older the dog, the better.

Technically a pass/fail is what you get in the OFA as well, they just happen to grade the passes and fails. With the OVC there are no arguments as to whether "Fair" ratings should be bred or there's no temptation to breed Grade 1 elbows because they are only slightly less than a pass.

I don't breed anything but passes and I'm comfortable that I'm not tempting fate by trying to make an excuse why the elbow may not have passed. Cat door anyone??

For me there's no black or white answer to this one

I live in the U.S. and have used both OFA and OVC and will continue to do so, last Summer I was fortunate to get a very nice 17 m/o boy with no ortho views yet done I opted to wait a month have my Specialist do the views, they looked GREAT, prolly OFA excellent/clear, we sent them to OVC and he has his "finals". Will I do him at 24 months? I doubt it, why put him under again, and yes my Vet and I both prefer to have the dog under anesthesia for x-rays.

On the flip side yrs ago I purchased a young adult male without clearances, he flunked OFA hip/elbows x3 and had a lousy Penn-hip rating BUT passed OVC, for me seeing the views with my Vet is the most important part of the procedure, this boy did not have arthritic changes but was quite subluxed/loose and there was an imperfection on one elbow. It's called "being in denial" and grasping for a passing rating.

Guess this really doesn't answer much, does it

I'll continue to use all the tools available and make my own decisions based on each situation, without slipping into denial

A stud dog that's OFA Fair/clear with a sound pedigree is much more appealing than one that's Excellent/clear with loads of bad ratings in the family

Fair hips are not slightly less than a pass. It is a pass and good to breed.


"whether "Fair" ratings should be bred or there's no temptation to breed Grade 1 elbows because they are only slightly less than a pass"

CdnBreeder ??? wrote:
"With the OVC there are no arguments as to whether "Fair" ratings should be bred"

Where is there an argument as to whether "Fair" ratings should be bred?? In the US, that is a passing grade and clear of CHD. Do you mean because OVC just calls them "Clear" and passes them that they are more accepted? I guess I don't understand your point.

For my money (and that's what we are talking about, the money spent for opinions), I prefer OFA because I not only know if the dog is clear of CHD, but also get an opinion of hip phenotype. I have used OVC only twice - both times when someone in Canada was inquiring about purchasing a dog that was over 18 months and under 24 months of age. As long as I was going to do a prelim, it might as well be evaluated by the purchaser's organization of choice.

"" stud dog that's OFA Fair/clear with a sound pedigree is much more appealing than one that's Excellent/clear with loads of bad ratings in the family""

Excellent point! One thing I really like about OFA is you are able to search what is behind and what they have produced. Maybe that is why all my stud choices have been American boys. Sorry fellow Canuks!

Jill just copied a article about the same questioned being ask. It clears up and question still lingering around about fair hips, prelims and what one can assume about ready a 18 month old dogs prelims and then the finals at 2 years of age.This is coming from OFFA.org information

it is under litter listings....

"it's under litter listings"


???? where ?????

I think the other post ment litter listing thread.

Not trying to start a riot here, folks, but a good friend of mine was recently in touch with OVC and they told her that an OFA fair is an OVC fail.

Now having said that, a few years back, Joyce Love was a speaker at LOC's breeder's forum. She raised an excellent point. With OVC we either get a pass or a fail. So now assuming that two "fairs" WERE passes, how do we know we're not breeding two fairs, just because both passed. If you had two OFA dogs, you'd probably think twice before breeding two fairs, unless you REALLY knew what was behind both really well and were comfortable with it. But with two OVC passes, you could have two borderlines and could really be increasing your chances for problems. Lots of food for thought, this is a good topic.

I have had two experiences where I had an OFA mild dysplasia and a pass with OVC.

what is ovc

OVC is Ontario Veterinary College. It is located in Guelph Ontario Canada.

http://www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/

I had an OFA good who failed OVC...was neutered.

What would everyone's interpretation be of OFA Fair hips (done at 24 months) and a PennHip score in the 100th percentile (done at 70 months)??

My opinion would be that you are trying to compare apples and kumquats Was the 70-month film resubmitted to OFA? Was the dog evaluated by PennHIP at 24 months? Then you really have no basis for relating the two evaluations.

I had to go look up the dog to be sure of my facts, but there is a record (you can look in LabraData) for MOWGLI'S WON-TOLLA that shows two PennHIP evaluations. The first one was at 10 months of age and rated at only 50%le. DI was .48 and .52 on the hips. The second evaluation was at 69 months of age and rated at 70%le. The DI readings for that film were .41 and .38 respectively. So... you can see how easy it would be for a dog to get an OFA rating of only FAIR on one evaluation and get a PennHIP evaluation the equivalent of EXCELLENT 4 years later - especially if the first film was not done with chemical restraint and/or poorly positioned. Again... comparing apples and kumquats

Unfortunately no, the 70 month films were not submitted to OFA. PennHip does not return films and the dog is now dead so films cannot be taken and submitted to OFA for a current rating.

With any reading. If you don't like what you get then always get a second opinion.
There are human opinions afterall.

If OVC consider fair a fail, then an OVC pass must be at least the equivalent of an OFA good. Therefore I would assume (possibly incorrectly) that there is no way 2 OVC passes could be 2 borderlines?

Well said. With OVC, the x-rays used to be read by one person, now they are read by 3 different individuals. Might be why so many OVC results are coming back as fails and then passing when sent to OFA??

Final OFA evaluations are also done by three individual readers, so I don't see the comparison?

Up until recently, Dr. Dobson was the only one reading the x-rays at OVC for clearances. He is no longer doing it and there are now 3 different vets who look at them - each individual x-ray is not looked at by 3 vets, it depends on the day they are being read who does it. My point is that each individual may have a different opinion - with OFA, each set of rads is read by 3 individuals and they are rated. At OVC, one individual looks at them.

Canadian Breeder wrote:"I am thinking if this is correct why not wait and send radiographs to USA?"

I guess I'm lucky, I'm a Canadian breeder also and have used OVC for over 20 years as my certifying body. I have only sent plates to OFA after an OVC fail twice I think and both times both places gave the dog a thumbs down. The system OVC uses has worked for me, I don't have reems of individuals calling with unsound puppies nor xray failures. I have used both OVC dogs and OFA'd dogs at stud. Oddly enough, the one dog that failed both systems was out of an OFA excellent yet the dog had littermates that passed and xrays looked clean. I don't see the need personally to send my plates to a foreign country for certifying when my own has a long established body doing this(and its results fall within my comfort level). I have never had a US owner refuse me stud service as my bitches are OVC'd.
Yes, if you get a fail, you might wish a second opinion based on the health long term of the dog and possible importance within your breeding program of that dog. I'm not one to shop for the answer I want to hear yet I totally understand getting the best possible read/take on the xrays and so would support others doing so. One could also use Penn Hip I guess too in your calculations as to hips passing.

My female failed OVC as 2/5 displastic and I then sent the same rads to OFA for a second opinion. OFA gave her a fair.
I agonised but decided to spay her and place her.
Just my comfort level I guess. Plus I did not want to have to answer as to what the OVC grade was or why I did OFA.

What does as "2/5 displastic " mean?

Correct me if I am wrong.

Canada 18 months one person reads and evaluates. Pass or Fail

USA 24 months 3 people read and evaluate? Grades Excellent Good or Fair.

I am thinking if this is correct why not wait and send radiographs to USA?

Any Amercians send to Canada to get certificate faster? Or, just do Prelims in USA?

If you are a breeder( canadian breeder) than you would know in Canada that ovc cannot be done until 18 months of age.
your next question regarding OFA-you can find this information on their official website. So what is the purpose of the question?
Your next question about waiting to send to OFA- then wait or do ovc or do both( you can do ovc at 24 months and at the same time send them to OFA)you do not have to do ovc at 18 months and then do OFA at 24 months but if you have lots of money than do that.
Lots of american breeders send to OVC, and lots of breeders do pre-lims.

Why is there always a friction between what happens in USA and what happens in Canada. I have seen this more times on this forum.Why not compare OFA to say a european countries certification. Why are we always comparing everything to the USA.