I have found much that rings true with the thread introduced by the "novice". I'm a newbie too.

I have tried to do a lot of time at dog shows, and lab specialties...trying to learn...my disinchantment came with the terrible "trash talk" I heard "ringside" by other breeders against the other other breeders. Where is the "comraderie?????" I guess I expected a force of breeders who cared more about the breed than their own "advancement" in the show world. No reason to respond to my post. I just think that this needs to be recognized....and changed. I am commited to being the "encourager" on the side lines...remember high school sports???? I say we remember that we can be happy for the winners, and good loosers...and people who encourage, not discourage.
I tried to build these 'realationships' with show breeders by "introducing" myself, letting them get to know me...but all I found was people who tore down other peoples' dogs (to impress me???) I don't know...it did not impress me....it actually made me "suspicious". I will only attach myself to the ones who are positive. To those of you who "criticize" other breeders...I would immediately NOT buy a pup from you.
The new generation of lab breeders will be different...kind...encouraging...hopefully. I hope I encourage many of you to see that we can all be supportive of each other...and the breed we represent. Thank you to all of you who pass the torch and really love the Labrador, so much so that you don't care if someone who is a "newbie" actually "grabs the torch" and runs with it...with all the integrity we need to see as this breed developes.

I don't mean to discourage your optimism regarding a new generation of Lab breeders, but my own personal experience has been that a couple of "newer" and very successful breeders are the most unkind folks I have ever met. They expect to win everything, and when they don't (rarely), they are just awful. It's easy to be a gracious winner; the true test of a person's character is how they handle defeat. And they rarely think any hopeful newbie should be allowed to join "their" Lab club. Very discouraging, to say the least.

Just plain disgusted

Troll alert.

Actually, I find the ones that are newer to the breed and to showing are the nicest to me.
I do not find them "expecting" anything. They seem to enjoy/appreciate the wins all the more. Their enthusiasm is refreshing.
Sometimes it seems that the older breeders somewhat resent the wins of the newer breeders. But I also know SOME older breeders are VERY encouraging to the newer breeders, you all know who you are. You are the ones that keep us going.

I'm actually not paranoid about trolls. Most of them are very articulate and have some good things to say.
Some of the recent posts have valid points. Some of them are just innocent. They show respect many times, and they also speak with confidence and candor

Lets try another topic ! This seems to be the same person talking to herself alot.

I don't think this is the same person...
I think this is another person who feels like me and the others being kicked by many old breeders who seems to care about theirselves and not about the dogs..
please stop playing as you were the main character, your dog is, not you

Actually I think I'll stick with this topic a bit. As a professional handler I was amazed, surprised and even amused at the goings on with some of the other breeds and their breed clubs: treasurers absconding with the National clubs bank account to show his own dog! chair throwing at a meeting of a parent club, and much much more. I felt, compared to those other groups the Labrador people were pretty darned nice and special. I still feel that way but I have seen that it seems in different locations you get a different kind of breeder. Someone I know well recently judged in a different area and couldn't believe how awful the Labrador people were about back-stabbing each other. I have also noticed the smaller the Lab community ususally the more fighting among them. Its as if when there are only a few of them, they are more competitive because they each have a chance at being 'top dog', but in other areas where there are lots of really good Labrador breeders they realize that there is not going to be one ' top breeder' in their area because there are going to be several at one time, and they all become willing to share that spot.
I would say to the novice breeders who are trying to get into the game, surround yourself with people you enjoy being around just like you would anyplace else and select people who are kinder with their words about their fellow exhibitors. In the Labrador fancy there are plenty of people out there who understand that we all can have nice dogs and it only benefits the whole breed, and there is no need for jealousy. At work you have to do the same thing......hang with the people whose company you enjoy....so do the same thing at shows. Then as you get further along, remember your experience and don't start bad mouthing other breeders and spreading gossip just to make yourself look as if you are "in the know". I do find the newer people in the breed more guilty of that than some of the more mature ones.
Judy

Something else I meant to mention. Sometimes when I am at a specialty, someone who is a bit new approaches me and introduces themselves and I am always glad that they do but sometimes I am so busy I dont really have time to chat, so I have to excuse myself to get one with what I am doing. Also sometimes I have been so busy all day that I haven't seen any of the show and I am just about to finally sit down and do so or get to watch one of my own dogs. So what I am saying is that not every moment at a specialty is a good time for anyone to talk. I finally have stopped telling puppy buyers that I am going to be at a show in their area because I realize I just don't have time to really chat with them at a dog show and I don't want to appear rude. Anyway just wanted some of the newer people to realize this does happen and it is not directed at you specifically, just the way of the specialties sometimes.
Judy

nice words judy

Maybe us old breeders like to assume its all "the same person talking" so we can discount what they say. Maybe there IS a collective opinion out there we are afraid to acknowledge. Just a thought. We could either take it to heart, or just keep discounting it as "one person's opinion".

Judy,
Thanks for taking the time to say so much on this topic that in my opinion was approached badly.
Thanks to several others on the other thread as well.

Granted, we all know anonymous people on line tend to speak in a different and less polite manner, but if this is how these "newbies" are trying to communicate with other breeders, I understand where the trouble is coming from.

Certainly there is an "issue" here as far as how do new people who are SINCERE in what they wish to do with the breed gain entrance to the hobby.


I am a newbie:)
I am not ashamed and don't have any kind of disgruntled attitude.
I have a wonderful retired gal who is my heart, an absolutely lovely bitch whom I am grateful as heck to have, and two year old pups.
Yes, when I first started my research, it wasn't easy to even get emails back from some, and the conversations were sometimes a bit stilted because I didn't know where to begin. I was a little hurt a couple times when I asked a few to mentor me and I got back replies like..."mentoring is a big step and I suggest you join some activities first."
I know now that they were certainly right.
Anyhow...although I have a start, have some wonderful friends and some shows coming up, I still suffer from a great deal of nervousness, anxiety, and *gasp* a bit of shyness when it comes to talking to other breeders at shows.

I want to meet others that are closer to me(geographically) than most of my friends in the breed.
I really do need guidance in a different form lately, preferable by someone in person who can help me to see certain things that I cant visualize as well as I should.

So how would you long time breeders appreciate being approached?
I know from what Judy and others said, show time is not always a good time, but are there points after or before you feel receptive to meeting people or are show days just really bad all around for meeting?
What strikes you about a newbie who introduces themselves to you?
Are there things that you take notice of right away that either interest you or turn you off?
What about meeting at club meetings?

I know that clubs have enough work to do with shows and specialties, clinics etc...but just a thought, how about a new breeders meeting? Newbies and people who want to be newbies

I know the logistics would be crazy, but wouldn't it be marvelous if there was a periodic meeting at a club for people who wanted to break into the hobby to come and chat with the senior club members? To ask questions and share a bit about themselves in a situation meant especially for that reason? Where the breeders attending are aware of the fact that it is a bunch of people who want to hear from them about getting a start instead of people who are coming to a regular club meeting and trying to find the nerve to talk to people they don't know?

I know, I am always full of the grand impossible ideas, but how neat it would be if something like that happened...to meet people who you knew already had an open attitude about helping those who were new...and what a wonderful opportunity for newbies to prove themselves in a concrete measurable way.
Senior club members could see over a period of time just how dedicated newbies were by their attendance at suggested events, doing reading the senior members recommended and showing a dedication to learning about the breed from those who know it best. I would even do homework


Ok...last comment here...for all the other newbies like me, stop blaming the older breeders. Stop feeding into all the negative crap, its just going to drag you down. I promise you that there are some very kind long time breeders out there, but they could probably smell the negativity a mile away.
If you are getting a raw deal from someone, or the cold shoulder...see ya. No biggie. Move on and keep your chin up and smile. some one somewhere is going to notice that things didn't get you down and help will come to you out of nowhere when you least expect it to give you a whole new perspective.
I can say these things because I am so new myself and I have been just as discouraged by the difficulty of getting a start as well as the many heart aches that come with our chosen hobby only to be lifted up by a few kind breeders who have helped me see pretty clearly how I need to see things to be happy in my hobby.
Annie




Annie

I don't want to sound like an old fogie here, but the gap between old timers and newbies may be due to social factors much broader than just the dog world. Let me explain.

In my "day job" I am responsible for hiring, training, managing, and mentoring staff. That involves everyone from seasoned professionals to new graduates just beginning their careers (see the similarity here?) The difference in work ethic and commitment is marked, and if leadership styles aren't flexible enough to accommodate everyone the younger people will leave, or the experience base won't lend its value to the team. In the business world this is called situational leadership. If I have a project with a deadline that requires significant overtime to bring the project in on time I can pretty well count on my older folks (say, been around ten years or so). The really new ones want to hit the clock at 8 hours a day and forget about weekends. The 5 to 10 year folks are somewhere in the middle. You get much more senior and folks are either there all the time - workaholics - or are retired in place. So the point is?

Newbies: appreciate the fact that many of the old time breeders come from a generation that expected hard work, total commitment, and were raised to "pay their dues". Also, they are the ones who seem to have no work/life balance, and don't realize it.

Old timers: appreciate the fact that many of the newbies have seen the toll that our work ethic takes after a few years on passion, commitment, and relationships and consider that perhaps the holy grail may lie somewhere in between our generations.

I just wanted to add a different perspective to all this discussion in this and other threads - just something additional to consider.

Very good points Greg. We deal with these "generational" issues continually in my line of work also. "Generational" not only meaning age or time from graduation or seniority in the workplace, but also the state of mind or ethic that drives the individual. Those that are into instant gratification will not be happy in the long haul to be a well-respected breeder of the most wonderfull breed in the world.....or in the boring day to day tasks that make a department functional.
Thanks for the insite
Lisa

Very good points Annie. I actually was very shy when I first started too. I could talk the ears off a billy goat if I knew that billy goat but if it was some well respected breeders I couldn't get a word out. I remember sitting a Jane Borders house once after a show and Helen Warwick of Lockerbie had judged and was there to visit with the exhibitors. I walked into a room and she was sitting there all alone and not one person was talking to her... a perfect opportunity. Unfortunately I was so novice I didn't even know how to start a conversation with someone as knowledgable as she. I wasn't even smart enough to know the questions, much less the answers. Well at least I was smart enough to know I didn't know. But I also felt really bad that no one was speaking to her but I just knew it couldn't be me. I turned tail and ran out of the room basically.
What I would give for that opportunity to speak to Helen Warwick today. What I would given to have been able to speak to Mary Roslin Williams before she was gone.
However the other part of what you said was about your committment and desire to become a good dog breeders with a concern for the welfare of the breed. Its like anything else - you have to really want it and you have to be persistant.
Also most clubs have other events besides dog shows and those are probably better places to get to know breeders than some of the busy shows. They have matches where they always need workers. They need someone to help set up the rings at the shows sometimes- help there. There are only a few members there helping, believe me and you will be remembered for that! Just give them a chance to know you.
Dog clubs are always crying for helping hands if they are putting on events. If you are having trouble getting into a club because of the two sponsors thing, well that is a tough one. Perhaps you need to talk to a member of the club who is on the board or a president even- even if it is by email and explain your problem and ask if you could attend some meetings as a non member and help at some events so members could get to know you. I'll bet they would recognize your problem and say yes.
Judy

I agree, Lisa. Those seeking instant gratification and/or instant fame and fortune in the breed don't usually last long. And while they are around, experienced people usually can see through it and can recognize when "winning is everything" and when breedings are done based on that thinking.

In fact, to be a reputable breeder and have your own standards and stick to them, can sometimes be a very solitary mission and we sometimes have to find our own measure of gratification and be self directed, to follow our own beliefs and values, even if they are against the grain or against a popular opinion, (possibly because folks don't know the whole story.)

A great thread............