I've been reading the forum and notice a lot of new folks in the breed asking for advice on how to get started, being new myself I thought I'd offer some helpful hints. I've known what I wanted to be surrounded by dogs since I was little, got bit by the lab bug at 16. Its a passion and love for most of us that just burst out at a young age. So for those of you frustrated with the experienced breeders, this is what I've learned.
Be prepared to pay your dues! Show them that not only do you have the best of intentions, your serious and commited. This involves, going to shows, learning all you can, meeting new people and breeders. Thats the hardest for me I have trouble walkin up to someone and introducing myself. Also joing a club or 2. They will be happier to sign for you to join the club then to sell you a pup. Next do not expect them to just hand you a pup with Full Registration! Co-ownerships have worked out fantastically for me. Also start with a male... why would you need to jump into breeding litters first thing if your in it for the breed? You start with a fine young male, out of a pedigree you admire, show him, train him. He will be proof of your intentions. I did my pedigree research and made list of kennels I admire, then I prioritized the list, places out of my reach at the moment, like Sandylands or Guidelines. Places in the states I admire. Then I found what I was looking for a litter sired by a Henning Mills dog... guidelines back in his pedigree a couple generations. I'm raising him, training him, loving him! and I already have my second male from kennel out of another stud I love "Grady"... and this time I've impressed him enough to trust me with full reg.
This is my story and advice... I hope it helps the true of heart get started!
Oh and my one question out there for the breeders I admire... whats the best way to approach you at a show?

If more of us had the presence of mind to remember that there is good and bad in everything and everybody, perhaps we wouldn't be having so many discussions that turn out to be heated. Oldsters can be as vicious and impatient as yougsters, etc, etc, etc. Newbies can be as eager and enthhusiastic as old timers, and on and on. Greg I to was in management. I had 50 employees at my full-time job, and 700 in my part-time job (reservist). And you are right about the old timers and the Gen-Xrs.

Walk right up and introduce yourself!!! That's what makes the shows so much fun- after all the work involved it is just nice to meet people from all over the world who have the love for the dogs.

"... why would you need to jump into breeding litters first thing if your in it for the breed?"

I know some have heard me tell this little story before, sorry. When we met with our "breeder" for the first time, and I guess Okayed at that point to go on her waiting list, before we left she said had someone to show us. In came the most beautiful puppy I had ever seen, think she was about 16 weeks old. She wanted to give us something to think about, not that we were to make a decision on the spot and take the puppy home. We were offered a co-ownership. We laughed about this several times over the years. I declined the co-ownership because I would have to breed at some point for a puppy due back the breeder... no problem in that itself, but as I explained why I declined... I wanted to learn to show first and thought I might be biting off too much committing to breed a litter. The puppy stayed with her breeder, went on to finish at all specialties, I believe by 18 months old!! Yep, you're probably wondering how many times I wanted to kick myself in the head over the years over that one... but I think all worked out for the best. When we did get a puppy from our breeder, it was from a repeat breeding, and we got a full sister.

If you're wondering who the gorgeous puppy was... Ch. Beechcroft's Tina!!

I don't want a (leg lifting) boy

Oh boy, I will tell you a little of my experiece with going to dog shows etc etc. I was brought up with Labradors, I can't ever remember a time when there wasn't at least one Labrador sitting in front of the fire. I don't show often as I work 7 days a week for 9 months of the year so makes showing a litle difficult. The last show I went to I was showing a little chocolate baby, there were only 5 babies in the class and we came second, her litter sister beat her. Anyway a long time breeder came up to us and said that the puppy that came 5th (last) must have had a very bad mouth, because that is the only way ours would have beaten it, we just stood there with our mouths open speechless, this unfortunitly goes on all the time and then the old timers wonder why new people give up, I will continue to show her despite what this person said but it gets mighty darn hard at times. I have showen her father who is very nice only to have snippy snakey e-mails beat me home. As for getting a puppy off a breeder I guess I have been extreamely lucky that I have had 2 breeders trust me enough to sell me two males, one breeder I have never met and the other I only met after her puppy had been with me for over a year, they are both in a differnt country. You need a really tough hide I am afraid to compete in the show world.

Oh well then, get a stuffed toy...

Well, a wonderful thread (so far) managed to get all the way down to Show Bred before the sniping started. What is wrong with you????

I think alot will agree. You don't know what you're missing by not wanting one of those leg lifting boys.
Especially a black leg lifting boy.

Donna

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I don't want a (leg lifting) boy

Shanni,
That is a wonderful post. What you showed was committment and that is what I am looking for in a new person to our breed. I have helped several newcomers and I think if you went and talked to them they would tell you we have always tried to bend over backwards to be helpful, and they know we adore them aside from just dog shows. WE also respect them and the way they continue to go forward with and without our help.
Judy

To Jan- A little Advice to Newcomers"
Please do not put me in the same category as that person who said that to you just because we have both been breeding a long time. I would wonder how long she has been breeding and how respected a breeder he/she is. That is rude in any part of life. I would not even have said that to you if you came up and asked my opinion. That was just mean. Was this at a specialty or an all breed show?
You need to ignore and stay far away from people like that in any walk of life.
J.

Last year I sold a female pup on a limited reg. After a lot of questions and reading it became apparent the young owner wanted to do something with the pup. I lifted the limite and wrote a contract, so she could show her. She got a CGC on her at the age of 1 year and 2 days. The dog is almost ready for her CD, at 18 months. The owner NEVER had a purebred dog before. It is a pleasure to work with her because she is a quick learner and listens very well. She is not afraid to ask questions. She also studies pedigrees, has joined a local club, and has a good eye for a nice dog.

She has since bought a male pup and both will be shown when they are ready.

I don't know if she adopted me, or I adopted her, but it's been a fun ride. Sometimes things do work out right.

All I can say is that you folks that are looking for a break and are really sincere, somebody will come along that will trust you and work with you.

You just have to find a good mentor!! I am lucky enough to have a great one!! There's a lot to learn and you just have to ask questions. The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.

So so so true!!

Shanni,

Good words of advice....and almost exactly how I started. Acquiring a male from a reputable breeder and then doing as much as you can with him will open a lot of doors. I did a lot of research and was lucky enough to obtain a very nice boy. I showed him in conformation and finished him. And at the same time I did obedience, agility and field work. All four of these activities opened the doors and I met a world of different type of people.

I also strongly suggest joining a club. I am not a breeder but am very active in our club and have held many different positions over the years. One thing which I have found really, really works....and a great way to meet Labrador people is to RING STEWARD at your specialty. I only have two dogs so I volunteer to ring steward every year. I can't tell you how many nice breeder judges that I have met. I also get to chat with the exhibitors and get to know people a little better this way. If I want to talk to someone, knowing that ring side may not be the best time, I just ask them when we could chat. :-) So ring steward, ring steward, ring steward. You will not believe the people you will come in contact with!!

Michelle L.

Absolutely! I was just discussing this with a friend and we agreed that, as in life in general, there are nice people out there and there are not-so-nice people out there. This applies across the board, in any avenue and goes for oldtimers and newbies alike.

Judy, I just had to say that, even though I have never met you, I have heard nothing but nice things about you. The "word" is that you are always very approachable, helpful and encouraging to newcomers. In a perfect world this is the way everyone would behave.

There are boys who are not leg lifters. My first boy who was a specialty winner,and was bred quite often, had the run of the house and he never once lifted his leg indoors. He was a perfect gentleman.

Oh my,

Mine would never think of lifting a leg in the house.
They are gentlemen, also.

My point being, I love my boys.

Donna

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Replying to:

There are boys who are not leg lifters. My first boy who was a specialty winner,and was bred quite often, had the run of the house and he never once lifted his leg indoors. He was a perfect gentleman.

Thank you Judy, those kind words mean a lot coming from someone as respected as you in our breed.

Shanni,
This is the best post I have read on this forum dealing with this subject and your advice couldn't be more true.I'm new to the breed ring and was very fortunate to get a beautiful labrador to start with that when I see her in my yard or when taking her in the ring I am so proud and fortunate to own her.

I started in obedience and then moved to feild with another dog and developed some great friendships all due to having a great mentor. Recently at a specialty after leaving the ring another handler had nothing but negative things to say about the winning dog all I could remember was something my mentor mentioned early on, if you don't have something positive to say don't say it at all.

I really had to think about this before I posted as I have heard this same story line since I was a kid. So here is my attempt…You’ all can take pot shots at me after you read it. I have been around long enough to have a good suit of armor! ;)

Kim and I typically do not sell to "show" or "breeder" homes to protect the integrity of what we breed. It is and has always been our goal to establish a kennel type. While I believe we have many years to go to achieve this goal it is first and foremost in our breeding program. And the main reason why we shy away from placing pups with a novice. We are not apt to place a bitch that can be bred every which way and back again to alter what we have built over generations. An old time breeder who is no longer with us told me that it takes 10 puppies to make 1 show/breeding prospect. I agree with this statement whole-heartedly!

This is not to say we have never placed a "potential" show/breeding pup on a full registration. We have done this 3 times over 18 years. So far, 2 out of the 3 relationships have been with no problems. It is the one bad apple that really spoils it for others. You can call it gun-shy, however, I call it the second reason why we do not place potential show puppies. Kim’s woman intuition warned me and I didn’t listen. Shame on me! All of the correct words were spoken, however, the novice's future actions did not match. This particular novice believed they knew more than we did. The next thing we knew our bitch puppy was spayed and we never saw her again. So much for the contract and getting our puppy back!

We have and do co-own and co-breed with other breeders. This is only after several years of developing a long time relationship. For us, it is like being family and allowing someone into our inner circle. Your values and ideas about your programs have to match or it just doesn’t work. Trust is key!

We all have to start somewhere, however. I was a dog show brat at the age of 12 so I guess I had it a bit easier. I grew up around Labradors and “old time breeders” when I was showing Hounds and Irish Setters so I was already a known factor. However, the premise is always the same. As it has been stated in previous posts you have to (1) become a familiar face (join a Specialty Club or Kennel Club) (2) show your dedication to the breed by either starting in obedience, rally or field with a dog that has a limited registration, (3) attend Specialties and study the dogs that you like (operative is the last “s” in specialties), (4) once you have determined the style of dog you like approach the breeder and provide your background, future goals and the reason(s) why you would like a dog from them (stress your homework from knowledge gained by examining exhibits at the specialties you have attended), (5) be patient and approach breeders at the right time (many of us are scrambling at shows to get the next dog ready try an e-mail of a phone call after a show ~ We really aren’t trying to be rude and put you off it is just that we can get a bit wound up before going in the ring or while we are in the ring), (6) Choose a select few breeders that you would like a dog from. Don’t contact a whole group. Be honest with them and let them know who you have also contacted. If you did your homework correctly the styles should align. A true test of the style of Labrador you seek.

I hope this makes some sense. I, myself, have always tried to help the novice both as a breeder and a judge. Again, we all had to start somewhere … I think the answer to that is first with education! Getting your dream dog is not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and a good bitch. (Yes, I said good bitch not great bitch.) You have to know you aren’t going to get the “pick” … Whatever that is! At 8 or 10 weeks a breeder only thinks they know what they will turn out like. The 3rd or 4th pick you walk off with could be that huge specialty winner and the bitch of your dreams. Trust me… We’ve let them go to pet homes more than you know!

I guess I don’t know what has happened to doing it the old-fashioned way. The novice should be thankful to get a bitch puppy from a seasoned breeder who has poured his/her heart, soul, and life into that next litter on the ground. Don't forget these breeders over the years have probably seen c-sections, bitches lost in whelping, spays due to complications, herpes, etc. Wouldn’t you be guarded as well?

Think of the possibilities you have in front of you from getting that 3rd or 4th pick. It is like taking a blank canvas and painting the next van Gogh. Take that bitch puppy, grow her up and show her if she is competitive. If she is not competitive, realize she is your start and your foundation brood bitch. Study her, learn from her and breed her to a stud dog that will compliment her (… and thank the stars someone with a nice stud dog will sell you his semen! They don't have to.). Keep as many of her puppies as you can. Keep the whole litter if you have to. Watch them grow and keep those who have the qualities you bred for. Cull the ones that were not lucky enough to get those qualities and find them good homes. You may have to keep these pups for a year or longer, but I guarantee it will be well worth it. Will it be a lot of work? Absolutely! I have stayed up and trained puppies and young dogs until 2 and 3AM in the morning after a long day of work. However, I know in the end the rewards in the long run will far outweigh the energy I had to provide to each of those prospects. Just remember it is all part of the blood, sweat, and tears to earn “your” right of passage and to get that next dog of your dreams!

Gail R,
Although you don't know me, I don't have a Windswept dog and I'm not looking for a dog. I have no motives in writing this other then to say I enjoy reading your posts. They stand out to me because you are always professional, knowledgeable and kind. You have said some wonderful things about this girl and I would like to say that SHE is very lucky to have YOU.

That was great Michael. Everything said. I have worked on my line for over 25 years and not going to give it away either. I sure agree about 2nd or third pick puppy turning out great. The one time I co owned almost lost a friend. We all look at thing differently and what a person tells you they will do with your dog, is just talk. Some don't hear or get what you are really saying. Great note from you !