At what age do you think it best to do OFA prelims? I want to do them young enough that I am not keeping something that should go to a pet home but old enough that what ever the rating is stays there and does not go down.

I like 8 months. Most of mine (my line) have about 90% of the bone growth and 50% of the muscle mass. I get a sort of "worst case scenario" on the x-ray

If you were to Penn Hip instead of OFA Prelims and then do 2 yr old OFA's you would get much more info for your program.
I work at a very large English setter kennel and have seen Penn hip #'s reduce the incidence of HD and improve laxity #'s greatly in the 6 years I have been there.
I wish more lab breeders would Penn Hip so I could have that info also,
Bridget

What's the cost of PennHIP where you are? It's about $450 where I am - both places I contacted a few years ago - a steep price to pay for a test with questionable value to the majority of the Labrador world.

I agree with Maureen 8 months for my gang, seldom if ever have I had anyone change and if they have it's been one rating and most usually "up".

My mentor advised 10 months. If I do prelims I wait until a full 12 months. 97% of hips will come back the same, elbows deviate much more in recent years.

do you think that elbows have been off due to injuries? Have you seen it more unilateral? Just curious on your thought

Based on the breeders that have experienced these results in my club and in other areas, no. None have had injuries or lameness.

Some have repeated it with an agency like OVC and the results were normal/clear. They then resubmitted to OFA and still failed. I heard this story several times now. Others never repeat it outside of OFA and placed the dog in question as a pet.

It happened in my breeding program once. My mentor, a long time breeder, had it happen to her many times. She does not suspect injuries and noticed none. She said it originally changed for her when OFA changed their elbow grading ratings years ago. Did anyone else notice this?

There seems to be more consistency with hips then elbows from prelims to finals. I wonder why? I have decided not to do prelims at all for now.

Funny about elbows.
I have seen too many dogs bred on elbow prelims because the dogs had "accidents" later or the dog "fell down the stairs" and couldn't clear later and it always makes me suspicious.
I have known dogs clear elbows at 2 and then develop ED.

I have got to agree, the elbow game is scary. We did not do them for years. Then we all started doing them. Then alot don't go along with the readings of OFA. Nice dog, breed anyway. Hard to understand. Or breeding early with out much of any clearances. If we are trying to keep the Labs where they can work and be sound think we better rethink this idea ! JMO

We pay about $250 , which is a discount for high volume. They do take an OFA type view to look for DJD. I would be thrilled if they could start doing something with elbows...........
BB

Here is my limited experience with ED... you may or may not find it useful.

Some years back I bred to a lovely import dog based on OFA prelims taken at 16 months. Since he was imported from the UK, where not many did elbows at the time, there was no background to explore. He turned 2 just after the pups went home and his elbows did NOT pass. He was diagnosed with DJD, grade 1 in both elbows. I informed the buyers about the issue and asked them to please let me know if there were ANY problems with the pups. Of the nine pups in that litter, 4 had ED (including the one I kept)and several were quite bad early. The dam, who was clear, never produced it again nor did her litter sister ever produce one. My conclusion was that some ED is very hereditary and likely dominant.

The other case I had was from an untested sire with a well-known owner who was quite adamant about NOT x-raying elbows. I kept a bitch from the litter and later sold her at 20 months. We had full prelims done at that time before the sale. She was both hip and elbow clear. She came into season just before age 2, so her final x-rays were put off a few months. At 28 months, her hips were excellent, but she had grade 1 ED (DJD) in one elbow. The new owners were very disappointed - I was shocked as well. They had her redone at their area vet school at 32 months and BOTH elbows were bad by that time. I replaced her, of course.

I often wonder if she had been x-rayed right at 24 months if she would have passed. I also wonder how many dogs that DID pass at 24 months have elbow DJD now and are passing it into the gene pool unannounced.

I also own a dog who passed final clearances and now has terrible ED at age five!

I own a male that didn't pass at 2, grade 1. We fixed him, he is 11 now and still sound?

I say count yourself lucky.
ED is very painful, debilitating, difficult and expensive to treat. Glad to hear he is having a comfortable life!

Quote:

I own a male that didn't pass at 2, grade 1. We fixed him, he is 11 now and still sound?

Don't most people do OFAS prelims at 12 months or older? So the prelims can be posted on the OFA database?

Why do them at 8 months or so, instead of waiting until a 12 months old?

the posting of p/l on OFA database is fairly new, the age I decide to do my p/l's is not influenced by the ability for them to be posted there if someone wants to know or see the results they can ask me?

I've found 8 m's a good time since my girls are usually closer to 11 m's or a yr for their first heat, this way i don't worry about that coming in to play with the joint results. I like to know sooner than later if my youngsters are looking good as that will help me determine if they stay longer or if I need to neuter and find them a home.

This works for me

I have had several vets tell me that the OFA view of the elbows doesn't tell you much. The elbows should be x-rayed in 3 different positions to get a real look at what's there(don't ask me what they are called).

20 years ago I had a pup that had been body slammed by an adult ( I was right there and could not stop it). Vet kept taking the standard OFA view, told me nothing was wrong and that he had Panno. Well, after 4 months of strict crate rest I finally got an appointment at the vet school and lo and behold, the first x-ray they took in a different position showed the bone chip that broke off when he was hurt.

Moral of the story, if you have doubts get x-rays of all 3 positions and submit all of them.

"I've found 8 m's a good time since my girls are usually closer to 11 m's or a yr for their first heat, this way i don't worry about that coming in to play with the joint results."

Does a bitch being in season effect the results?

A bitch being in season CAN make a difference in the results at any time in her life. The best time to xray would be in middle of seasons. As you don't know when she will come into season for the first time it might be advisable to wait until after a first season then xray 2 to 3 months. Even at 8 months she could come into season a week or a month later. The further away from a season the better although in some bitches it doesn't matter. Better safe than sorry. JMO