I know that most people find it absolutely acceptable to show a dog that is stuck on majors, even if there is no major in dogs, but there is in bitches, so there is a good chance of picking up the major by going Best Of Winners. But, where is the line drawn? Do most find it OK to show a dog stuck on majors who could only pick up that major by taking Best Of Breed over specials? Or, even more controversial, you could only pick up the major by going Best, and taking a Group 1? I am struggling for that last major, and have some decisions to make about the entry in some upcoming shows. Don't want to be hated, but don't want to shoot myself in the foot either. Thanks for any input on this.

My dog needs a major to finish. If there is no major in dogs, but there is in bitches I would still show him for the crossover points. People should know that is the reason you are on there with him. It would be different if there was no major at all and you showed him.

JMO
Donna

In general, I believe it is okay to show in hopes of the crossover, but further than that, no.

I guess I didn't answer your question.
It would depend on the dogs in the ring. If I knew my dog could never get the group 1, then no I wouldn't show him that day. Let someone else pick up the minor points.

Donna

Which shows are you debating....i am in same boat...would need a BOB or BOS (and all entered dogs to attend) to show....although my class dog has gone over specials before...so may be worth a shot....but if you choose not to go to said show...I would have to pull my boy...there would be no major even with BOB...

I would think about traveling to bigger shows.

I surely would show him if there is a major in bithes. But, I would be showing him to a judge that I have a good idea of what (the judge) likes. Most of the judges are aware of the BOS award when the other sex does not have a major.

Don't be too sure of that! I have seen numerous judges these days not give the crossover points when there was only 1pt to be won by going BOW over the Winner.

When a major can be earned by taking BOW's I think this is acceptable to everyone. If your dog has taken BOS or BOB over specials from the classes and you think it can do it again for a major, why not show it?

This happened on the Jan. Fl. circuit in another breed ring. The major was not holding as the dogs went into the ring. After the dogs went in and set up a handler came running asking permission to show his dog. The judge permitted it and the major held. My dog was the one to win so thankfully he was not pulled. The major was what he needed to finish his championship. I would be very careful not showing a dog you have entered.

If our dogs need points, there should be no hesitation to show them under any circumstances.

There was a dog last year who had all his majors, needed a single to finish and the owner continued to show him when single or major points were available. The dog finished by taking another major.

The best dog wins. I would rather see a dog finish with all majors even when he only needs a couple of singles in the end if he's the best one out there on the day.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with showing a dog who had his majors in order to get the minor points he needed. After all, it advances the cause of that dog. The question is asking about when to show a dog that needs a major and if he would have to go BOW, BOB or BOS to get the major. I would draw the line at needing a group win to get the major. I know class dogs sometimes win the group, but that's really rare.

I know that there are many people who feel differently than I do. Dog shows look for the best dog. I wouldn't begrudge anyone (pro or amateur) who needs any number of points to show their dog against any number of dogs (singles or majors). Although very few dogs go from class dog to a Group I, if a handler thinks the dog is worthy, it wouldn't bother me to show in the same ring with them. Heck, it might be me.

Interesting topic.

You then, do not know a thing about showing.
If a dog needs only majors to finish, you DO NOT show that dog at single point shows. You pull him, lose your money and let someone who actually NEEDS singles take them.
It's all about good sportsmanship, being realistic, and doing so without selfishness.

Go For It

I know that there are many people who feel differently than I do. Dog shows look for the best dog. I wouldn't begrudge anyone (pro or amateur) who needs any number of points to show their dog against any number of dogs (singles or majors). Although very few dogs go from class dog to a Group I, if a handler thinks the dog is worthy, it wouldn't bother me to show in the same ring with them. Heck, it might be me.

Interesting topic.

IMO, I would show him if he could get the major by taking any of the breed placements, but not if the major was dependent upon getting a Group 1, UNLESS it was a really small show and I knew the judge loved my dog. Taking a Group 1 with a class dog is a pretty big stretch I think, but in the breed, go for it!

You enter any dog show knowing you must beat every other dog of your dog's gender to win a "point". Depending on how a dog does, it may go beyond its breed "win", and earn further points if the dog continues winning.

Now whether that dog is just beginning, in the middle, or short one "point", there is always the possibility that it may gain a point or points or actually finish, depending on where it is in its campaign toward a championship.

Why is it more "sportsman like" to win against dogs which are less closer to finishing, than one which is almost finished, save for one point? Given the possibility that the dog needing one point may get it, by going past its breed win, why is it more sportsman like to stop your campaign toward a championship, because you possibility of winning is more difficult, but not impossible? By what magical rules does someone wanting to finish their dogs, who may have been campaigning their dog for God knows how long, at very great expense, have to suddenly take a back seat to someone else who is not as close to finishing?

I think the essence of sportsmanship is the willingness to complete against all odds, with the belief your dog is the best, and will rise to the top and win. If people have trouble competing against any dogs, whether not pointed, having some points or almost finished, then I think you really don't have the attitude necessary for breed competition, and would be happier in another activity like obedience, which is just you competing against your own performance. Just my opinion.

We had a situation a year ago where our boy needed his majors (still needs one), and we went to a show where it was a dog major, but not in bitches. Our boy is in Open Yellow, so by the time his class came, the major didn't hold, so we pulled him. When the WD, and WB were done, and all came back in for BOB, the bitch ended up going BOS over a bitch special, for a major and then the WD went BOW and he also got the major. That was one case scenario we hadn't thought of. So, if there is a chance to get it, go for it. I agree, though, it is wishful thinking most of the time that you will get a Group 1. It can and does happen, but unlikely.

If you just don't get it, no one can 'splain it to you.
So go ahead, show your dog who only needs majors at a single point show. See how many friends you make.
Ha ha. It'll make for good dinner conversation amongst us breeders who do know how to play nicely.

winning a Group 1 does not automatically give you a major, there has to be another sporting breed at that show that day that took a major for the Lab to also get the major. happened to my dog years back.

stepping aside so your dog can win, I think I would be quite happy without the benefit of your "friendship". Especially since your idea of post show "fun" is not discussing dogs, but cutting up your competitors.

Thanks for the offer, but I think I will pass.

I think if any dog in the group won BOB in a breed in which there was a major that day, your dog would get the major points. It could be a champion that in BOB beat a dog that got a major. Am I wrong about this?

Oh gimme a break!
If you are dumb enough to show your dog and rack up more than 9 singles, you deserve all the cutting up you get!
Can you explain to me why you need over 9 singles?
Is there a race to see who can finish a dog with the most points? Say like 25 or 30?? Is that the cool thing to do now??
I didn't get the memo!
It's not a matter of "stepping aside". It's a matter of YOU DON'T NEED SINGLE POINTS so why would you take them??????
Whatcha gonna do? Brag about the "extra" points you stole from your fellow competitors?
Is your ego really so big you actually think your CLASS dog is so good he will win the GROUP???
Would it make you feel good to earn points you can't use towards your championship?
You are the one with the attitude here, not me.
I sure hope I never run into you, you are obviously not willing to learn how dog showing works.

the day my class dog took BOB and a Group 1, there were no majors won by any class dog in any of the other sporting breeds, my Lab and the Goldens missed a major each by 1 dog just goes to show you that you can't count your chicks until they hatch

OK. I understand that. But my question is that if there had been a breed in which a dog won a major, and that dog was beaten by a special for BOB, wouldn't winning a Group 1 over that special give you the major? Does there have to actually be a dog that won a major competing in Group? I didn't think so.

"We had a situation a year ago where our boy needed his majors (still needs one), and we went to a show where it was a dog major, but not in bitches. Our boy is in Open Yellow, so by the time his class came, the major didn't hold, so we pulled him. When the WD, and WB were done, and all came back in for BOB, the bitch ended up going BOS over a bitch special, for a major and then the WD went BOW and he also got the major. That was one case scenario we hadn't thought of. "

In this situation the specials gave enough dogs for a major, so I would have advised you to go ahead and show. As I recall, specials of either sex count if you win BOB.

by virtue of the specials beating the class dog that won the major in that breed, that specials carries that major on with him to the groups, if another breed takes the Gr 1 who was not a champion and needed a major, it will receive the major

If you think your dog is good enough to win on the day and earn a point, why would you suddenly think the dog would not be good enough to go on and possibly win more points. It is not a personal ego thing; we are talking about the dog. You either think your dog is good enough or not. And once again I am in awe of people with this oracle like ability to know exactly how their dog will place, (may take Winners, or BOW or BOB, but that is as far as it can go). Can you do stocks and bonds, or perhaps lotteries as well?

That's what I thought. Thank you.

You show your dogs how you want to and I will show mine how I choose. Everyone is entiled to their own values and opinions. Get over it.

If your dog is not good enough to win a major at a major pointed show by going winners or best of winners, it is not likely that it is going to go best of breed over specials or group 1. Put it up, let it grow up or get a better dog.

This thread is from 2009-four years ago, did the finish and how?