Labrador Retriever Forum
Do you like Origen (don't know if I'm spelling this correctly) I would like to try something other than the Pro Plan that they girls are on. I like the idea of Grain Free. I plan on breeding one of the girls in July/Aug and wondered about something healthier for her. Please email your experience and suggestions! Thank you for your help! 
I feed Orijen. I like it very much. Transitioned 3 years ago from ProPlan myself.
First Orijen litter is on its way! I had a hard time deciding what to feed mom, but decided on the Orijen Puppy, not the Large Breed Puppy.
While the mom is pregnant you feed her puppy food Orijen... Just trying to understand...
Please email me if you like! Thank you!
keep her on her regular diet. After the pups, you increase by up to half her own food. Adding the puppy food would give her too much calcium and you'd put her at risk for eclampsia. She will need calories, not calcium. I've had 4 litters on Orijen now, 4 years, love the stuff!
The adult and the puppy are very similar. I am feeding the Puppy formula, not the Large Breed Puppy formula.
I've decided, and thats what we're sticking with.
ADULT
ORIJEN ADULT DOG has a Metabolizable Energy (ME) of 3950 kcal/kg or 470 kcal/250ml cup, with 45% from protein, 25% from fruit & vegetables and 30% from fat.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 2.5%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
Calcium (min.) 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%
Puppy
CALORIE CONTENT & DISTRIBUTION
ORIJEN PUPPY has a Metabolizable Energy (ME) of 4200 kcal/kg or 480 kcal per 250ml cup (120g). Calories are distributed to promote peak physical conditioning with 40% from protein, 20% from fruit & vegetables and 40% from fat.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 20.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
Calcium (min.) 1.6%
Calcium (max.) 1.8%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%
*Omega-6 (min.) 3.2%
This thread wasn't about me and what to feed my pregnant bitch. I'm quite happy with my choice.
Thank you!!!
Adult calcium
Calcium (min.) 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%
Puppy
Calcium (min.) 1.6%
Calcium (max.) 1.8%
Large Breed Puppy
Calcium (min.) 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%
Protein is the same on all 3. Fat is 16% on adult and LP pup. Puppy is 20% fat.
I switch to LP pup at 6-7 weeks pregnancy and continue it till pups are weaned. Pups are started on the LB and kept on that until they are switched to adult at 12 months of age.
My pups have done great on this and so has the bitch.
I've been feeding it for a few years now and the dogs love it and they are very healthy on it. I've had 2 litters with it and I kept the moms on Adult until the puppies are born and then transition to Puppy. I did try the Large breed and I wasn't as thrilled with the stools so I switched back over to the Regular Puppy. I also feed the 6 Fish and have my puppy on that.
I have been feeding Orijen for several years......have raised 4 litters on it....great food....no problems. I feed my pregnant girls the Six Fish....switch over to Lg Breed Puppy after whelping. I keep the puppies on either Lg Breed or Regular Puppy (have used both) until they are 12 months. Great food....I think it is the best out there today !!
How do you afford this? A 30lb bag is $80 around here!
$58- here, buy 6, get the 7th bag free.
$61.99 for 30# bag here. There are some place that do sell it for $80 here
www.heartypet.com gives breeders a 10% discount and will extend it to your puppy buyers.
Call and talk to Tracy.
I loved the food at the time I was feeding it to my girls but over time (1yr) one of my girls started to get small clouds in the centre of her eye which later got larger and then came up in the other eye. Took her to the opthomologist for an eye cerf and she was diagnosed with corneal dystrophy. The proteins in the orijen were too high for her to digest and it resulted in small fatty deposits on the first layer of her cornea's. since then I have switched her food over to wellness brand which is lower fat and protein content and the deposits have reduced to half and are appearing to clear up. According to the othomologist these deposits will not interfere with her vision and provided I continue feeding her the lower protein and fat diet she is on now this will not get any worse but will never fully clear either. Just something to keep in mind. BTW The reason she was put on the orijin was because of her constantly working in the field and it was highly reccommended for helping with her allergies.......which it did a tremendous job of fully clearing her hot spots....I wish they made a lower protein and fat version of this as I have to keep her below 30% fat and 15% protein which is what the opthomologist had said.
I'm sorry you went thru this and hoping it fully cleaers up on the new diet.
Wondering if you fed the origen with water added? This has been recommended by a couple of mfg. co. to aid in digestion of high protein. Champion was one and I believe EVO was the other that I had corresponded with in the past.
I did try adding the water but the deposits continued to Grow so i had to get her off the food before the layers got thicker and thats why I dropped the protien down to 18% and the fat to 10% as it proved to partially clear up the issue. I am not fully convinced the new food I have on is going to cut it for her as she is an extremely active Lab that trains daily and is in the middle of her hunt test/field trialing season so proper nutrition for her is key. I have been researching other foods in the meantime and Acana does have some newer foods out there that have been recommended by breeders so I am going to closely look at them before switching her off the wellness food. I know tones of people that are on orijen and have fantastic results and also have raised litters on it without issues. I truly believe Orijen is a fantastic food but it just didn't fit with my Girls system. I wish there was more feedback out there on the Acana....not able to find alot since it's newer to the market.
Orijen Adult Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 2.5%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
Calcium (min.) 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%
Omega-6 (min.) 3.0%
Omega-3 (min.) 1.1%
DHA 0.6%
EPA 0.3%
Carbohydrate (max.) 20.0%
Glucosamine (min.) 1200 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 900 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg
This is the first I heard of high protein affecting the eyes but don't doubt it in the least. The 40% Orijen foods have is too high protein for any dog to be able to digest properly. I was told more than once that the major organs will eventually have a problem processing high protein foods including the kidneys and liver but now the eyes too?
Did you let orijen know about your experience? They should be aware of it, maybe they can reduce the protein at some point. I hope your Lab's eyes continue to improve.
As this is another story about high protein causing health problems, I would never allow my dogs on this food or anything with this high protein. My dogs are on 26% to 28% protein, never any higher and 2 are on 22% that need to lose a few #'s.
I understand your issues. I feed Origen and my dogs do well on it so interested in what you find out in the future if you would keep us posted.
I also agree with the last poster if you have contacted Champion about this. Your eye issue is the first I have heard of this.
Also dogs (especially those working in the field as you mention, draw their energy from fat first, so I don't see 10% fat being enough to sustain your dogs in the field)
Hoping your dogs improve on the diet change.
Please update us when you can. Even if it means starting a new post months from now on how your dogs are doing.
Good luck to you and I truly pray your changes are beneficial for your dogs eyes and in the field.
One of my girls developed the corneal deposits while on EVO. The opthalmologist told me that the deposits were fatty deposits, and were due to a high fat diet - most especially, a high fat chicken diet. She said that dogs process chicken as a high fat food (unlike people) and that I should stay away from chicken in the future. She recommended a low fat fish diet as being optimal. I now feed this particular dog Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardine, and Salmon food and her eye deposits have completely cleared.
It is my understanding that the eye deposits are a result of the dog not processing fat efficiently and have nothing to do with protein levels in a food. BTW, my other dogs are currently eating Orijen and everyone is doing great. Not every food suits every dog - you just have to figure out what works for your particular dogs.
This sounds like two vet opthamologists that don't agree about the reason for this problem. It is interesting that both are grain-free foods with high protein. Do both foods have high fat also?
It's not as easy to find fish based foods with all the rest you might want in them. Especially if you have your dog on a grain free for a specific reason.
If either were my dog, I would go for a 2nd opinion to be sure another opthamologist agrees with the cause.
Orijen is 16 and I believe EVO is 22 fat.
I agree with a second opinion and would be interested to hear the results.
I contacted my supplier who contacted Champion about the CD and this is the response. I know these people are not opthos or specialists in any way but hope the info will be helpful just the same.
" Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you but we did want to ensure we were answering you correctly. Our nutritionist could not find a correlation between the fat deposits on eyes to the protein in food. We also asked an outside consultant who has a PHD in Nutrition and she came back with the same findings we had that this is usually caused by cholesterol not protein and it is also usually hereditary.
I hope this helps.
Clark"
" Hi Clark
I checked this out myself and I have forwarded it to Angele as well for her thoughts because I was not finding anything related to protein content. She has replied mentioning the same things I found. There is mention that it can be related to cholesterol in some dogs and a build-up of cholesterol can lead to the clouding of the eyes. The mention was that there were fatty deposits on the eyes. This is not related to the protein content of the food. If the dog is unable to properly process fat and cholesterol then it can build up and cause this, but it is generally more prevalent in certain breeds. I am not sure what breed this dog is, but it would be interesting to know if it were part of the list in the following paper:"
http://www.vmdb.org/dx2.html
" Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you but we did want to ensure we were answering you correctly. Our nutritionist could not find a correlation between the fat deposits on eyes to the protein in food. We also asked an outside consultant who has a PHD in Nutrition and she came back with the same findings we had that this is usually caused by cholesterol not protein and it is also usually hereditary.
I hope this helps.
Clark"
" Hi Clark
I checked this out myself and I have forwarded it to Angele as well for her thoughts because I was not finding anything related to protein content. She has replied mentioning the same things I found. There is mention that it can be related to cholesterol in some dogs and a build-up of cholesterol can lead to the clouding of the eyes. The mention was that there were fatty deposits on the eyes. This is not related to the protein content of the food. If the dog is unable to properly process fat and cholesterol then it can build up and cause this, but it is generally more prevalent in certain breeds. I am not sure what breed this dog is, but it would be interesting to know if it were part of the list in the following paper:"
http://www.vmdb.org/dx2.html
It must be part of the food, I would guess the ridiculously high protein from some sort of meat. The Labrador Retriever is not listed in the dogs it affects so it's not common in Labs. Of course the food companies are not going to admit that part of the food is the cause of it. High cholesterol can be caused by too much protein.
The woman with her supposed Ph.D. in nutrition surprises me. This is taken from the WebMD site regarding women but I found it all over the internet.
*High protein diets can cause a number of health problems, including:
Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
High cholesterol. It is well known that high protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke and cancer.
Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.
Cancer. One of the reasons high protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber and anti-oxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day. *
I don't think you can generalize that this food (Orijen), or any higher protein food, can cause problems such as corneal dystrophy. How would you explain the fact that dogs on lower protein diets also get corneal dystrophy showing up? Dogs have had corneal dystrophy showing up for a very long time, way before the advent of higher protein diets kibbles.
Corneal dystrophy is not necessarily caused by high cholesterol; the problem lies in where the cholesteral is deposited. For whatever reason, dogs with CD are unable to filter lipids through the eyes' filtering system and they end up depositing there.
And a human WebMD site for women can't be generalized to dogs; we aren't the same species, and not everything works the same. Dogs are carnivores; people are omnivores. I've never heard about wild canines having a problem with huge rates of corneal dystrophy due to their huge intake of protein.
I don't think I would feed my dogs such high protein food! When my older bitch was young I fed her food witch had a little higher protein and she suddenly got ear infections and allergies do to the fact of too high protein. Now she is on Pro Pac Large Breed Adult 23% protein and 13% fat and she has never had this problem before! I feed puppies from age 4 wks to 8 wks Performance puppy with 30% protein and 20% fat... after 8 weeks they are on Large Breed Puppy 26% protein and 14% fat. I like Pro Pac and I am very pleased with how my dogs look like, how their coats looks like and their stools. They are all very healthy and eat it very well!
I am the original OP.... Have been reading this thread... Started to research a little more about high protein.... Am attaching some info from 1995 that I thought was interesting and plan on researching a bit more on proteins and see if I find anything else more recently dated.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/article.aspx?id=3408
2004
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/puppy-protein/
2009
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/dogs-and-protein/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=protein_myth
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free
PS: the article you posted says at the top of the page
"written by The Pet Center on Tuesday, September 15, 2009"
An informative thread on another forum:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48372
Thanks Orijen, can you tell I didn't have my glasses on! LOL! 
OP, what Wellness formula did you change your dog to? I wonder how your dog is doing now since this thread is old. We are awaiting thyroid results on our Boston terrier but the vet doesn't really feel it is that. If it's not, we will have to go to a low fat food. After reading your post, I am hopeful that his eyes will clear a bit.
