How does this work???? A what price???
I sold a show puppy that now is a champion. The owner needs to sell the dog and he is asking me $15,0000.00 to buy the dog back.
I think this is a little steep.
How do you about settling a fair price? Do you put some kind of a cap in your contract?

People buy Champions for $15,000.00 all the time. Just call some of the more successful breeders and stud dog owners. The contract should state that you have the right to purchase the dog back for the sale price. This is why these "contracts" are only worth the paper they are printed on. There is always a loop hole. When we sell puppies, you have to give up a certain amount of control. Certain things just have to be given up to God. This relates to the other thread on taking dogs back as the breeder. If you cannot separate yourself from your puppies, than you should not sell puppies on full registration. You cannot control what others do.

Why would you want to pay $15,000.00 for a puppy you sold that is now a champion? Is he producing outstanding pups? Seems a little over the top. Can you lease him back or work a deal over time?

I don't think you read the original post right. The person who bought the dog and made it a champion wants to get rid of the dog. Per the contract, the breeder has first right of refusal on buying that dog back. But the problem is the person who bought the dog NOW wants $15K for the champion dog.

Honestly, if you didn't do a co-own on the dog, you have no rights to it. If the $15K is too high, that's a shame...let them sell the dog to someone else. If you think you want to keep the lines, buy a stud service and freeze the semen, or keep an eye on where the dog goes.

But if you sold the dog outright to someone on full registration and this is just a plain "first right of refusal" be happy they did that and say NO THANK YOU. The price is fair if you were looking for an established champion. But not everyone is in that position to buy. And even as the breeder, you don't have a right to that dog just for what they paid you.

I agree with the previous poster "me".

I do not think the owner is doing anything wrong and is doing the right thing by contacting you first. Unless you shared expenses he has the right to try to recoup the money that went into making this dog a champion and for a finished dog with clearances that price is not unheard of. If you cannot afford this then hopefully since you sold them the puppy on full registration to begin with you have enough trust in them to pick a good home for this boy. But he is their dog to do as they please, unless you had a previous agreement.

The dog finished easily, so I know it didn't cost that much to finish him, but maybe it is the fair price for a Champion after all.
Offering just the purchase price is not fair either.
Thank you all and especially me.

You should be proud to be the breeder of an easily finished boy. So first, congratulations! That's not an easy or common feat.

Congrats also to the owner for offering you right of first refusal, even if it was in your contract, which you didn't mention. They could have easily ignored that courtesy.

The price is entirely up to the owner. A finished dog with a recognizable pedigree and all clearances (which you also didn't mention) can easily make that much money back over the life of a breeding career. Whether or not you want to pay it is up to you.

Most people I know, including myself, have right of first refusal at purchase price in their contract. But, if you didn't do that and the owner is asking $15000 there is not much you can do about it. Do you trust the person who owns the dog to find it a good home - that would be my biggest concern or will they sell the dog anywhere that offers them the money. If the latter than I would try to work with them. Offer them the purchase price upfront and give them the stud fees as you collect them to pay the dog off. No guarantee they will work with you but they did call you first so maybe. If they dog isn't going to be used heavily enough to generate the stud fees to pay for himself than no one else is going to pay that price either (well, almost no one lol) If they don't want to work a deal with you and you can't buy the dog at that price but you want access to him later ask if you can pay to have the dog frozen for your own use in the future. Just my thoughts on how I would approach it. Good luck!

So Liz, if you sell a dog, then that dog finishes and possibly has clearances, you have the contract right to buy that dog back for the original purchase price if the owner wants to let it go?

This is the best response I've seen to the OP's questions. Obviously, she's never done this before and was looking for information. I think you summed it up well.

Congratulations to both the breeder and owner on an easily finished dog.

My contract is worded as such "Buyer agrees that breeders have first right of refusal to purchase the animal, not to exceed the orginal sale price, if it is sold." That's not to say that I may not feel obligated to offer them more than purchase price if the dog has passed all it's clearances and has points or is titled. But, I doubt I would be agreeing to $15000 under any circumstances. In the same token I have paid for dogs that I have GIVEN back to breeders. For me I believe contracts help protect the best interest of my dogs but I believe in working with people in every way possible. Some of these things simply aren't black and white and contracts never cover every situation.

Thank you Liz. That's what I had in mind when I put in my contract have first right of refusal to purchase the dog. I didn't specify the price, so it is my loss on this one. I would probably offer extra for points or titles, but not necessarily for clearances which I guarantee and it would have been my loss too is the dog didn't pass.
Live and learn.

You guys can't be serious??? You would offer to pay the puppy price for a finished champion with clearances?! I'm sure the new owner would JUMP at that generous offer!

While I believe that 15,000 is ridiculous, I also believe a puppy price is equally as ridiculous.

As a breeder, I believe we should have certain rights to puppies that we bred, but paying a puppy price to get a finished CH with clearances is taking it too far IMO.

That's just what I said. I would pay extra for the points and titles, but $15,000.00 is just too much. I don't think I have to pay extra for the clearances. That's part of the regular breeding management as it is regular vet checks and food.

I find it amusing that I hear breeders all the time state we shouldnt' be making $$ on our dogs - it's just a hobby. Yet, a situation like this comes up and all the sudden the dog is worth $15000 because it's a Champion? Sounds like the pot calling to kettle black to me.

I had a situation some years back where I found myself in a nasty court battle (divorce). I had 6 dogs and simply couldn't keep them all. I had a CH bitch who I purchased as well as 2 other youngsters with prelim clearances who I returned to their breeders and never expected or asked for a dime! It was what I felt was common curtosy. I wasn't looking for any return on investment as I thought this hobby was about the DOGS. Anyone who wants to show/breed should expect to loose money. If you come out ahead one year lucky you! But, show expenses (even if they earn points or a title) are just part of the hobby aren't they? The breeder who I offered the CH bitch back to was so gracious and told me when I was ready for another dog just let her know. It was the right thing to do - period. I hope someday that if somebody has a dog I bred that they can't keep they will treat me with the same respect.

Personally I've never understood these ridiculous amounts of money people claim their dogs are worth. There are a handfull of dogs who I could see justifying that price. But, a young dog even with a CH there are so many variable. What if the dog goes sterile next month, what if he produces health problems, what if he is a CH but just not that nice and he is rarely used, what if his puppies are just plain ugly? I think we would do good to remember that at the end of the day in the court of law they are just dogs and have very little value! That was what I learned in my ugly little divorce.

That is because in the real world that doesn't evolve around dogs, dogs mean very little to the lay person. But in the dog world they are worth their price.

No one said we shouldn't make money on our dogs. Just that we shouldn't breed with money as our primary motivating factor because many times we are lucky to break even. There's a big difference.

You are acting like she picked this number out of thin air? How do you know someone didn't offer to buy him for that much, and as a courtesy, she contacted the breeder first.

I had a breeder offer me $15,000 for one of my boys a few years ago. I didn't sell, because he's not for sale, but this could very well be the case here.

Get off your high horse and quit being so judgmental.

Giving back a random champion bitch and two youngsters is a lot different than a possible top stud. You don't know who this dog is and you don't know the earning potential he has.

His owner has the right to do whatever he/she chooses to do here. His breeder can either pay the price, or pass on him. Debating this matter on an anonymous forum is stupid. We don't know the dog, the pedigree, or the players, and let's face it.....that makes a HUGE difference.

If he's one of the many middle of the road champions out there with clearances, the breeder should make a reasonable offer and after no one else buys at the suggested price, the breeder might get him after all.

If he's one of the top up and coming contenders, someone will be whipping out a checkbook. Why should the owner settle for a few measely K, when he could be worth a lot more.

By the way......in case you wonder what a dog is worth. He/she is worth what an educated buyer will pay for him.

Given how few "Top Studs" there really are out there, it is highly unlikely.

So what if it was a puppy mill offering money for this dog? What if this is a dog that should not be bred (a CH title does not entitle breeding rights)? Would you change your opinion then? I think at the very least, the breeder has every right to approve the home. The owner is not entitled to sell at whatever price just to make money - the welfare of the dog should be considered. This is typically why breeders want first right of refusal - to ensure the dog is placed in an appropriate home.

Of course.

....and would it change your opinon if this dog was Potomac BOB winner and worth every penny?

This is why I said arguing this matter on an anonymous forum is STUPID!!! There are no hard, fast rules.

You are assuming the worst. Shame on you. If this breeder who came here sold the dog to someone on full registration, she is the only one to blame if the dog falls into the wrong hands. That is why I don't sell my show potential pups on full registration to people unless I know them very well and TRUST them. Even then, it's usually done on co-ownerships.

I have to know that they have the same morals and philosophy as me. I'm sure the breeder here did too.

Come on.....This dog isn't in need of being "SAVED". This dog is more likely very nice and now the breeder wants him back without paying the going rate.

A dog's show wins have nothing to do with its worth as a producer. There are very FEW dogs that ever live up to their hype, and some of the best producers were never the biggest winners. So no, I would not pay $15K for a Potomac BOB winner. If I were a pet person providing a loving home for a dog, I could care less about the potential of the dog as a breeding prospect. I think we can infer from this thread that this is not the case here - someone obviously expects to generate some income from this dog or why pay $15K?

If we are purchasing dogs or valuing them based on what potential earning income we will receive from them, then this is no longer a hobby sport and is a profession. Yes, people can do what they want, but let's not pretend to be in it for the betterment of the breed when $ is what motivates.

I have spoken with several puppy people lately who are amazed at puppy prices in my area (West Coast) - $1,500 and up for puppies out of dams with failed clearances and sires that are barely a year old. Sometimes neither the sire or dam are old enough to have final clearances. Breeders who breed 10,15 and more litters a year. This has absolutely nothing to do with the hobby or the breed. Again, people are free to do as they please but let's not pretend it is not a business.