I have a 16 month old bitch that was doing great with her hunt training. I sent her out with a handler for some conformation shows a few months ago. She came back and seems to have lost all of her confidence for field work. She avoids the gunner when going out - if she'll go out at all.

She isn't high drive in the first place, quiet going to the line, goes up and sits off lead - you couldn't ask for a quieter dog in the blind and on the line. And when she does go out she has a nice return to heel and hold until asked to release the bird.

I am just looking for ideas on how to increase her confidence level. She sees the gunner while at the line, hears the duck call, sees the bird go up, hears the starter pistol go off and watches the bird fall. These are all things she's had in training since April. When sent she will go out 15-30ft, shy at the gunner and come back to heel.

We've tried short go outs and still shys at the gunner. Doesn't matter if the gunner is male or female. We've gone back to basics to see if we can re-set her brain and nothing. If anything she's worse now than a month ago.

Ideas??

Other than not send her out with that handler again?

You may have to start from scratch and make it fun. Or can you do some OB/Rally to get her confidence up and then retrain the hunting?

Are you using birds or bumpers? Are you using gun fire?
Try with no gun ,just a "Hey Hey" and rapid fire birds or bumpers. Meaning, have the gun have a handful of birds and KEEP throwing the birds as she is running out, until the pup is there, then you do back flips for her, whooohoo!!!
Also live flapping birds can cure a bunch of drive issues......

Obedience was my winter plan. Hubby's plan was to use her for hunting this fall. We will probably use her with our old dog this year and see how things go with some competition. LOL

We used bumpers in early training and now we use birds. We have had live fire for a number of months now without issue. WE have to do the rapid fire to get her out past the gunner, but it doesn't change on her second mark. If I can get some live pigeons I may try some live flyer training.

I had some of the same suggestions as Sighttosea- live birds, especially wing-clipped pigeons, no gun with the gunner at first. Hunting may help, if your husband is doing the shooting, and there is not other gun in the field, that might get her enthusiasm up. But boy, I'd have to be sure the trouble wasn't gun-shyness before I shot a gun next to her. Something must have happened while she was out with the handler, possibly something that the handler wouldn't even remember because to a human mind, it wouldn't seem to be connected to field work. We had a similar issue with a rather low drive girl several years ago. She got two JH legs and then started having no-goes. We still don't know why.

I agree w/ Peggy I wonder about the gun....
Also do some long angle in throws ,short distances.(throwing toward the line on an angle) then gradually start to flatten out the marks , then start to angle back the marks.
ALSO a possible biggy , let her go on the ark of the fall , just as you would a pup.NO pressure on OB at this point.

Of course FF would fix it , if done properly. Fetch means fetch

Is the dog force fetched? Just curious, as it will alter how I answer the question.

Does she run out enthusiastically with the rapid fire throws? Have you done that ALOT? Does she look at the gun at all , when you do that?
IT COULD be that she is waiting for the rapid fire and if it does not happen she quits. If this is the case I would seed an area, with about 10 birds, about thirty yards out and do the angle in throw I was talking about and have her get successful WITHOUT help....then build on distances with seeded areas.
Sometimes if you help alot they start to rely on it.....

This can be a pretty easy fix. When your girl is about half way to the bird and before she starts to slow down throw another bird to the same place. Do this for two or three training sessions. Good luck!

I have had a few females (not males ironically) that have done this, they have all been dogs that were well socialized as youngsters up to about 1 year, then serious training, or weather would give them a break from interacting with lots of strangers and strange places for about 4 months or so. This would put them at about the same age as your dog. Dogs of this age are going through a lot of changes puberty wise and they seem to go through a fear period where they are over cautious of anything new or even with things that they should remember from previous training. Be patient, it will pass :)
The best thing to do would be to ignore the stress, but keep exposing her to new things and to re-introduce her to blinds, let her walk around and sniff at the wingers/launchers (not loaded of course) and to really try to get her around lots of people who will either stand or sit around and ignore her unless she comes to them for attention. That way when she scents a bird boy she will hopefully realize that even though it is someone she doesn't know, that they are not there to hurt her.
Keep her amped up with live pigeons and ducks if possible, otherwise if only bumpers are available,make sure that the bird boy is watching her closely. If she even starts to slow or check down, have them immediately throw another mark as close to the original as possible and keep feeding them to her in this manner until she makes the retrieve. Keep running her on the same marks until she is confident before showing her another. Keep them short (under 60 yrds) so that her momentum does not have the time to slow. It is always better to keep the area of the fall the same, but to shorten the marks by walking closer to the area. Then step back and re-run after adding another 10-15 feet, repeat as necessary.
Does she do much better in water? This could be a way of building confidence as well.
Sounds like she may have just been overwhelmed with the huge crowds while showing. Tons of noise but without any real reward for her, assuming that the handler most likely did not walk her through the crowds socializing with her. Most shows are pretty "hands off" other peoples dogs unless you know the owner/handler right?
Anyway, try these and any other suggestions that work for you, but also give her a little time. I had to wait on one of my field bitches to mature emotionally and find her way and place in the house pack, I am running her in her first HT on Sept. 24-25th at the age of two. Late bloomer!!!

We have been using guns and gun fire since April - we started by having them in the blind, to us carrying "dummy" guns and the gunners just throwing the birds, then the gunners had guns, then we started with small gun fire far away and moved it in, to having starter pistols for each throw - so they are nothing new to her at all. We also live within a mile of a big military training base so there is always gun/ artillery/ helicopter noise around us.

We have done the continual throwing of birds when she seems like she's stopping up and sometimes she'll go for them, and sometimes not. When she does she goes way off line and gives the gunner a huge berth to get to the bird. When the gunner comes in she's been allowed to visit with them etc and is all over them. We all dress in dark clothing for class/ tests.

She also has been at conformation show sites since she was 6 months old, so crowds at shows etc shouldn't have been an issue with the handlers. The handlers are very good with client dogs as I have seen them at many, many shows over the years and that is why I chose them.

She has been well socialized and has good people manners. She is NOT force fetched as up to this problem she had good go outs. When she does go get the birds she has an amazing hold and returns to heel with no prompting. She is VERY low key when it comes to field work and has never been one to go at blinding speed like our other dogs - she is slow and methodical.

I'm thinking about putting her away for awhile and starting field training again next summer if I can't find a fix for this.

We have been working with some great trainers, but we are stumped by this. They've had dogs that have shied like this but have all come around much quicker than her. This has been going on now for just over a month. She's not due in season for 2-4 months.

I think I'm off to the farm across the river from us to hunt down some pigeons....

The problem one of my dogs had was a little different; she just wasn't "into it" and didn't focus on retrieving when she was 14 months old or so. As far as I know (I was on sabbatical and was 800 miles from home that semester) she wasn't avoiding the bird boys. The trainer washed her out. I tried to train her myself after I got home (and winter had passed - I live in Wisconsin), but decided she was not worth working on. I did no field work with her for several years. She got her championship and had a litter. I then tried her in the field again, and she was focused and wanted to retrieve. I trained her for awhile myself and then sent her back to the trainer to get some live birds before running her in JH tests. The trainer asked me what I had done to her; she was like a different dog. All I had done was let her grow up! She got her JH in four straight tests after NQing in the first after I made a bad decision and brought her back to the line right after a no-bird.

Even though your girl is delivering birds well, I would still force fetch before running her in hunt tests. The idea is that they must know they are doing it for you and that, if for some reason they drop the bird, you can command them to pick it up again. I have a little girl 14 months old, a granddaughter of the girl described above, who is doing marks over 100 yards, always delivers to hand, even picked the bird up again when she dropped it to poop. I was tempted to run her this year and decided to wait until she is force fetched. The trainer I currently am working with would not advise you to do force fetching to cure this particular problem. He wants to have the dog retrieving enthusiastically before putting pressure on them. I don't know if I agree with him or not. When I've trained dogs myself, they have been force fetched early because I started with obedience before I got into field work with them. They did fine, but they were avid retrievers to begin with. So, although I definitely recommend force fetching before you run her in JH tests, I don't know whether it is advisable to cure this particular problem. You have done most of the things I would recommend. A month is not all that long. I wouldn't give up yet. Try wing-clipped pigeons, white if you can get them, or let her grow up.

It sounds to me like she may have been burned (shock collar) at the wrong time. If she was accidentally corrected when going out or at the wrong time it may have put a huge damper on her desire to go out. I have seen this before.

I do **not** use shock collars for any training - either they love to do it or they don't.

I don't use them either but maybe your trainer does?

So sorry. After re-reading I see that she was with a handler in conformation. Not a field trainer. My bad.

Sounds like a combo of a traumatic event causing shyness of the blind the gunner/thrower is in and low drive. The suggestion I am giving will usually increase drive, but decrease steadiness on the line. Try flushing live birds and not requiring her to be steady to wing(flush) and shot. You really initially will not use a gun. Use live birds with clipped wings, so they fly, but not well or far. You will need two handlers with whistles, plant the birds and mark their location with flags so you won't lose them. Use low cover. The two handlers will spread apart 20 or so yards and walk towards the quail/bird. Use the whistle to call the dog back and forth between the handlers teaching a quartering pattern. Take the wind into consideration, walking into it for the best scenting. If she does not smell and flush it the first time over, turn around and do it again. If she really doesn't get it, take her right up to the location of the bird and give her the command for "hunt it up" or whatever you use to get her to sniff. Let her chase them down. This really increases prey drive. Hopefully this will increase her drive enough to ignore the gunner/blind. You can increase this level of difficulty by eventually not clipping wings and shooting down the birds for her to retrieve- but you have to be a good shot or all the birds will get away; not good for drive not to get to retrieve what she flushes. At this point, most people teach steadying to decrease risk of shooting your dog. If you want to know more about this type of hunting, look up the BDC and UFTA.

I am assuming the gunner is "hiding" in a blind. If so, you might also try getting rid of the blind and just have the gunner visible for your dog. If she gets accustomed to this, reintroduce the blind, but keep the gunner outside the blind visible for your dog. Then hopefully progress the gunner back into the blind. Just a suggestion.

Think about going back to your pro to help with this problem. Sometimes problems are best dealt with by the pros.