I know someone going through a stud fee problem and just wanted some other input. I don't know ALL the details, but I'll give what I know.

Friend bred her bitch to a male, contract stated 2 live pups constituted a litter. 2 pups born, one survived, one died at birth due to umbilical cord problems. Initially stud owner said they would do rebreed next cycle, and when that happened, their male (only male they owned) was sick and then soon died...before a rebreed could happen. Friend was under the assumption that the stud owner would refund some money back to them (which they would use towards a new stud fee elsewhere). Stud owner now is saying they don't owe her anything at all because 2 pups were born. Which is odd because it seemed worked out before. I am thinking they don't have the money to pay out, which is totally understandable.

Just curious what other folks would consider the right thing to do vs. what may be contractual obligation vs. no obligation at all.

I personally would want to do right by them but supposely the stud owner told my friend that they talked to other breeders that say they don't have an obligation for anything. 2 pups were born and too bad, so sad...

It sounds like legally the stud owner does not owe anything. I wouldnt expect money back. Maybe at some point your friend can get a discount from the stud owner on another breeding if the stud owner gets another male. For now it would be good to move on.

I have paid full stud fees before and had one pup. Its a risk you take with breeding.

I did a breeding and paid for the stud fee to the stud owner. The breeding did not take. The stud owner said I could do a repeat on the next season. When the time came and my girl was in season, I contacted the stud owner. They said sure thing all is good you get your rebreeding. Then when it came time to ship, I called, emailed and nothing, no response. I used another stud. When I contacted the stud owner they said well we didn't think your bitch was ready. Whoa! Long story short this is a very well known stud owner and I cannot trust now that they will ship when my bitch is ready so that is it. I won't take a chance again and they got their stud fee and I got zero. However, I will never ask to use one of their studs again. This being said, I don't think you can get anything back from this stud owner. This happens and you have to move on and figure it as missed breeding.

They figured they are out of luck, but it IS a shame. It's just not how I would do business. Thanks for the replies so far.

This brings up an important detail. What constitues a live puppy? How long does it have to live?

All the stud owner can really do is deliver sperm in good ehough condition to get the bitch pregnant. The rest is up to the bitch, and owner.

That said, as a stud owner, I'm not trying to win on a technicality. I have followed the direction of some good mentors and try to treat people the way would like to be treated. I consider live puppies to be live at 1 week old.

I'm not saying that if someone does less they are doing anything wrong.

The key is making sure that this detail is clear and in the contract.

Like all contracts, details like, "what if the stud dog is not available for a rebreeding" should be clear.

This is another reason I like service agreement type fees, as both a stud owner and bitch owner.

Mike

I manage stud dogs and have brood bitches as well. I am equally frustrated with a stud fee which is lost due to the stud dog passing away. I should have been offered a cash refund when this unfortunate premature death occurred.

I wanted to use that dog not another. It has been a number of years and no refund has been offered.

On the other hand, i have made accommodations when bitch owners could not repeat a breeding for one reason or another.

No one wants to go to court, it is just ethics 101.

Did they pay the full stud fee or the $200. if the $200. then nothing is owed to them. If full the stud owner should refund. That is crazy. Maybe all the stud contracts should say 2 live pups after 48 hours. And think some do. I too lost a stud fee years ago. Use the dog twice only to find out he had gone sterile. Never any pups. Never money back. We need to be fair with each other.

I am a bitch owner and a stud dog manager. I have three champion boys who get used a bit and I have always charged $200 at time of breeding. It makes my accounting easier and it makes bitch owners happy. I also am generous in my counting of the live pups. I guarantee three live pups at 8 weeks. Things happen and my theory is one pup pays the stud fee, one pup is a keeper and the other pup helps cover the cost of raising the litter (if a c-section you have no hope of recouping your expenses without 4 or sometimes 5 pups). I haven't yet had anyone not pay when due and I don't have to think about giving anyone money back if cases like this come up. I really wish more breeders would do this, at least with 'known' breeders/exhibitors. I understand if you stand your dogs at public stud to pet bitch owners that you might not want to take the risk of not getting paid, but I don't let people breed to my boys who are not show breeders anyway.

I have lost count of the times I have paid a stud fee up front, not gotten the number of live puppies the stud dog owner guaranteed and never gotten a rebreeding for one reason or another. Sometimes I found out something about the dog that made me decide not to use him again, sometimes the owner was so hard to work with I decided to go elsewhere, and sometimes something happened to the stud dog and the owner didn't have another dog I wanted to use. I MUCH prefer the service fee at time of breeding. That said, if the owner of the stud dog I want to use still wants the stud fee up front, I may use that dog. I must say that things have gone better since i found a good reproductive vet.