Labrador Retriever Forum
I am looking for some good well presented info on EIC. My bitch is a carrier, and the stud is clear. While I am sure most of my puppy buyers are not even aware of EIC, I would like to have some documentation to give them on what EIC is, what the 'status' of the puppies is (some will be carriers, some will not), and the fact that the genetic testing is, in my opinion, still not 100% definitive.
Does anyone know of any well presented web sites that I can glean info from in case the puppy buyers want to know more?
TIA
http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/eic/taylor2008/home.html
Does anyone know of any well presented web sites that I can glean info from in case the puppy buyers want to know more?
TIA
Do you sell your pups on limited registration? If so, I wouldn't mention anything more than, "the sire is tested clear so there's no way your pup can be affected with EIC".
Don't confuse these folks with a bunch of articles and documentation on a disease and then tell them, oh, by the way, the jury is still out on this because the test is not definitive. You'd be sending mixed messages to your puppy buyers.
If you are selling on full registration, they should already understand EIC.
Yes, these are pet homes that I am thinking of. Any Full registrations, if any, will already be knowledgable. I just want to have everything available to any buyer that asks about EIC, and have a way of explaining EIC to a "lay" person.
I have never had a pet person just come out and ask about EIC, and if I did I'd just say, "the sire is clear, which means your pup can't be affected". PERIOD
Do you hand out documentation to your puppy buyers about HD, ED, PRA, TVD, cerf info, OCD, entropian, etc? Why give articles on EIC? I'm sorry, I just don't get why you want to provide them with information on this disease when no one in the Lab community or Cornell/UofM etc can even agree on it.
I wouldn't muddy the water with useless articles they likely won't read anyway.
I agree, I wouldn't give your puppy buyers any information on the disease unless they ask. You have already done your due diligence by testing your girl and choosing a clear stud to ensure that you will not produce any affected puppies. I find most people don't even know what it is, still. So why complicate things. Be a resource if they ask but why overdo it? Unless you ARE giving them info on PRA, other eye diseases, HD, ED, patellas, the list goes on and on.
I sure would not be giving them information on all those things. Hips and elbows is about what most know and you go on to educate them about eyes. As long as we breed around things for the pet people they don't need to know or care.
You certainly don't want to be educating the general public. What if puppy buyers start asking those who don't test about EIC? We must all work to keep it a secret.
I have never had a pet person just come out and ask about EIC, and if I did I'd just say, "the sire is clear, which means your pup can't be affected". PERIOD
Do you hand out documentation to your puppy buyers about HD, ED, PRA, TVD, cerf info, OCD, entropian, etc? Why give articles on EIC? I'm sorry, I just don't get why you want to provide them with information on this disease when no one in the Lab community or Cornell/UofM etc can even agree on it.
I wouldn't muddy the water with useless articles they likely won't read anyway.
Hmmmmm
Well, most of you have answered my question, in theory. Thank you especially to the poster who gave a link to info.
Because none of the pups wlll be affected, and the definitive research is still questionable, all I will do is state the facts as they are known (one clear, one carrier). What I was asking though, is for info for that owner WHO DOES ASK, WHO DOES QUESTION about the facts as they are known at this time, what do I tell them? I want more than "the breeder said" kind of thing. I want 'this is the research that we have at this time'.
Quite honestly, the more anyone questions, researches etc., the better, whether pet person, breeder or whatever. I hope some of these replies wher in jest. Really......
http://www.usask.ca/research/news/read.php?id=820
Well, most of you have answered my question, in theory. Thank you especially to the poster who gave a link to info.
Because none of the pups wlll be affected, and the definitive research is still questionable, all I will do is state the facts as they are known (one clear, one carrier). What I was asking though, is for info for that owner WHO DOES ASK, WHO DOES QUESTION about the facts as they are known at this time, what do I tell them? I want more than "the breeder said" kind of thing. I want 'this is the research that we have at this time'.
Quite honestly, the more anyone questions, researches etc., the better, whether pet person, breeder or whatever. I hope some of these replies wher in jest. Really......
Well, your response makes no sense. The puppies will never get "EIC" based on the genetics - it's pretty clear that if only one copy of the gene the EIC test looks for is present, the dog stands no greater chance of a collapse than a dog with no copies of the gene. You're right, the research isn't totally satisfactory, but think about it. Are you going to give information on any possible disease a dog might get? TVD, cancer, dysplasia, epilepsy, tick-borne diseases, kidney disease, spondylosis, CNM, etc....? I think you are over thinking this issue when you breed a litter with no chance of receiving 2 copies of the EIC gene.
Since a small contingent of puppy buyers will breed regardless of limited registration, maybe it's better to put everything out there. It might discourage them --- or not... Those that will deliberately breed on limited registration have shallow ethics to begin with, I guess.
I always give Optigen, CERF, hip, elbow, and heart test results on both parents to potential buyers but I don't elaborate unless I'm asked further questions. However I believe it's important to be honest. When I unintentionally bred an EIC affected puppy last year, I gave full disclosure.It made no difference to the family, and the pup has been fine so far (10 months and counting).
As an aside, I was shocked to find that I have two affecteds in my pack (ages 6 1/2 and almost 3 years old), and must surely have bred my share of affecteds previous to this discovery. Knock on wood though, I have yet to experience a collapse and I've never had a puppy buyer call and tell me that their pup has had any form of collapse either. I'm not denying EIC is real but I do wonder about the accuracy of the test.
All my breeding dogs have had an EIC test. Optigen or clear by parentage. I think I know what am doing. And I put it all in the puppy package. But I still believe the public really want to get on with playing with the pup. They don't want to hear what COULD have been there in the genes. Everyone just do what you feel is right for you.
Love this response.
I was assuming the OP was wondering what to tell buyers who see that the parents have been tested for thing and then are curious enough to ask what those things are. Personally, if I was buying a pup from someone and asked a similar question I'd be really put off by some of your responses.
There are some things best left alone. I would not post EIC results on my website, nor would I include EIC info in a puppy package. If you breed carriers and clears, there is absolutely no problem. Why confuse pet buyers who are not particularly interested in this stuff? There is absolutely no point in making people crazy.
Puppy buyers are interested in obtaining a healthy puppy. They will likely only become interested in various issues if they wind up with an affected dog. For things like CNM/EIC/PRA, there is absolutely no reason to produce an affected dog, so the discussion is unlikely to arise. The best thing a breeder can do for puppy buyers is to breed for the right reasons and exercise due care by breeding only from healthy parents. Provide copies of clearances of the sire and dam as part of the puppy packet, and if the puppy buyer asks questions, it is the breeder's duty to answer them honestly.
The extra risks breeders take (breeding to puppy dogs on prelims, breeding dogs with unclear elbows/hips, breeding dogs with known issues (epilepsy/TVD) or who have produced them, etc.) are not the puppy buyer's responsibility to bear - not at these prices without full disclosure.
Love this response.
I was assuming the OP was wondering what to tell buyers who see that the parents have been tested for thing and then are curious enough to ask what those things are. Personally, if I was buying a pup from someone and asked a similar question I'd be really put off by some of your responses.
Yes, you get what I was trying to ask. As I stated originally, I doubt any of the buyers will even know about EIC, but I do list it in the information about the parents. It is a test that was done, and the results show that the pups will not be affected.
But, if I were a puppy buyer and asked "what does this mean?" I would hope the breeder would have an intelligent answer, and would appreciate it if given understandable information.
Wasn't there a thread recently about entropian not being fully disclosed? I just want to give informed information to those buyers who ARE informed even to look at the test results and ask about it. I am not going to hide anything.
