I recently delivered a litter of puppies out of an abandoned German Rottweiler female. She delivered 5 pups and 1 began to fade on day 2. He was .90 oz at birth and initially gained to 1 lb. By day 3 he had slowly dropped to .80. On day 3, I observed the puppy nursing constantly and would drop off in exhaustion. I sat with him while he nursed and noticed that he would become very stiff and rigid. He would then roll over, his face would still be in a nursing posture, and his legs were straight and twitching. He had three of these seizure like episodes. One vet that I consulted, sight unseen, recommended putting the puppy down. He stated it must have brain damage. The second vet was concerned that he may be dehydrated and that it was causing seizures. He had me pull the puppy and bottle feed. When I initially started bottle feeding, he only had one more episode. I am still bottle feeding him and he is still separated from his mother. The vet recommended keeping them separated, that he may be having an allergic reaction to his mothers milk. I had my vet look him over last week and double check that he did not have a cleft palate. He said he looked great and to keep doing what we are doing. He did warn that he could start fading again. Today, he is now 15 days old 3 lbs. and this afternoon he had two more episodes. They look like seizures. Does anyone have any ideas? I want to give this puppy every opportunity possible. Help, please!!!!!!!

A PDA...Patent Ductus Arteriosis. A valve that is supposed to shut did not shortly after birth and the blood is going into his lungs. This pup will not make it and probably best to put him down. It could also be a liver shunt. My best guess is the PDA. I'm sorry.

What first comes to mind is brain damage or some kind of neurological malformation. It could also be a liver shunt, but I've never seen symptoms in a puppy that is still nursing only. Liver shunt can be surgically repaired .

Sorry, it doesn't sound good.

These "episodes" only happen while he is nursing. I would think they would happen all the time. Nope, just mealtime. This is crushing, he is growing, walking, doing all the things normal pups do, we even got a tail wag this afternoon.
Thanks!!!!

My guess is that the episodes are happening while pup is drinking/eating because that is what takes the most energy and when pup is getting the least oxygen. Common in children with any issues. I suspect caridac issue or liver shunt.

Sucking takes a lot of energy, this is often when an problem infant's oxygen saturation drops drastically. Probably the same with pup.

I agree that it is his heart... all kinds of things can be wrong and he may just need to grow up a bit to find out what is wrong. Good luck and let us know....

I know it's hard, we want to save them all. But if the prognosis doesn't seem good, do you want to spend all your time on this one pup when you could be spending your time with the ones that are thriving? For me, it would be harder to let go of a larger/older pup after all the hard work I put in than to make the hard decision now. Not all pups are meant to live no matter how hard we try.

It is time to be tough. While you do not have a firm diagnosis, you know something is very wrong with this puppy. Hard as it may be, you should put it down.

I went through something similar last year. Bottle fed a pup for weeks. Had it to the vet at 5 weeks and 8 weeks & could not put a finger on what the problem was. At some point, the pup started to grow and it was looking very cute. I thought it was going to be fine. All of the sudden, it started having problems again. Thousands of dollars and many tears later, I had the puppy put down.

I don't have any clue about how to help the pup. However, I have a dear friend who is a Rottie breeder and also works with rescue. I've asked her to take a look at your post and jump in. Hope that's OK!

Hi I am Lab Fan's friend with Rott's and I do rescue so see lots of situations. Please forgive if I am not welcome. And this is a long response..

After reading the posts, number 1, I would not give up yet...if the pup is growing, gaining, and showing all the signs of being able to function well I would wait and see. However, I would like to ask...

Did the vet listen to his heart? Was there a murmur? If so how serious? We do have problems with SAS (Sub-Aortic Stenosis and several other heart issues in Rotts. We also have seizures that run in some lines (more below).
Heart is the first I would look at. If he has serious SAS or related issue he will likely not make it past 6 - 12 months, if minor he can grow into it and live a long life. Very serious cases can die at birth and it can be very painful. Then again, I know several SAS dogs that are 8+ years old and competing in agility with their Doctor's blessing.
As for the seizures they can also be caused by trauma, injury at birth, allergies to meds that his mom may have been on (so look there first - did she have any meds (even flea type meds) during or shortly after birth? What about shampoo? Some can cause serious responses in adults and pups and even cause abortion of pups. Is it possible there was residue on her skin? Detergent can cause ethanol poisoning in pups for instance.
Since he is still having the seizures on the bottle I would not think he was allergic to her milk, but I could be wrong, I would more suspect allergic to something she ingested if that be the case. It is very unusual for a pup to be allergic to mom's milk.

My first thought was heart and then cleft palate, but with cleft ruled out - were there any chemicals in use in or around them at the time of birth? How long did you have mom before birth (as to knowing what she had been subjected to)? Another thought comes here of possible drug related.... any chance the previous owners were involved in drugs and the mom ingested some that settled in this pup? We have seen a form of fetal alcohol syndrome and also PCP pups where the mom had been given or ingested and also on the skin - substances while pregnant ( sicko people).
All this being said, my first concern is that if he makes it watch him carefully for any undue temperament issues or sudden mood changes... he could grow up to be a wonderful people dog or if he prefers to be alone and not disturbed he could need the help of a professional and make sure he gets lots of socialization. As we may not know the underlying cause it is best to be aware but also do not ask for problems by reading problems into each situation. You will know in your gut if there is something "off" in his reactions to people and things. If he is a "drug" puppy it is very inconsistent and fairly obvious this is not normal.
I am going to include some links here and have more if you want them. The first is a series of articles on hearts that are very well written.

http://www.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/0/media/SAS%20generic.pdf

http://www.2ndchance.info/heart.htm

http://www.2ndchance.info/sas.htm

seizures

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4149179.stm

Plese feel free to contact me privately : k9kapers@aol.com and I have a good friend who is a walking book on seizures that I could link you up with.

Karen

You have several experienced answers. If you choose to keep this pup be prepared for lots of heartache because you will not be able to place him in good conscience. He has a heart defect, and or a liver shunt and perhaps neurological issues too. His symptoms will get progressively worse. You have to know when to hold em and when to fold em. I hate to put it that way, but you have the voices of reasoning echoing this cry. You have others to care for. We have all been there in some form or another. Take care.

Thank you so very much. Can you email me her contact information, I would love to talk to her. The So called breeder that has abandoned her is a real winner. I'd love to know if there is more to his story or if she has ever heard of him.
Thanks Tons!!!!

Regarding your comment about the friend who is a walking book on seizures.

I'd like to pose a question for you to ask her....

I'd be curious to know if she has ever heard of seizures related to the heartworm medication "Revolution"?

This makes me think of my little girl with her liver shunt. I would never tell someone to not fight for them even if I knew the outcome. Wow do I miss her!

http://littlepinchpoke.homestead.com/