If you are unhappy with the conformation - obedience/rally split at the 2012 Potomac, please send an email to the board letting them know how you feel. I finally broke down and sent an email. To save you some trouble, here are the email addresses of the board members. You can cut & paste them into your own email.

conclusion@erols.com, springbuie1@msn.com, belquest1@aol.com, dtbarks@gmail.com, TenaBDVM@aol.com, momdeca@aol.com, buckskins2@aol.com, lrcpbetty@milltowne.com, labbers@gmail.com, wyndchimelabs@yahoo.com, susant123@hotmail.com, jodylaseter@gmail.com, rebecca@olddominion.net, applemtlabs@yahoo.com

As an exhibitor at the Potomac the possible plans to move the obedience and rally to another close location was being considered. I was asked my opinion on moving to an indoor venue. I feel the club did a fine job asking most of the exhibitors opinions.
We all know Labradors LOVE water. It is a different issue when you are asking a dog that is trotting in the rain to go 'down' in the mud on the recall. This is an exercise required in the a more advanced level. Yes, they are trained and yes they want to please us.......and yes, most of the well trained dogs do as we ask.
Those of us that compete in conformation have a different view of our Labradors in the rain and mud. Our Labs do love the rain but they are not being asked to perform duties that are simply unpleasant to any dog.
Even dogs with hunting titles are not 'driven by retrieves' to go lay down in the mud. Obedience is simply as it's name implies. We are asking dogs to do obedient commands. There is NO retrieve or bait at the end. Please be kind and take this knowledge of the difference of what we are asking our dogs to do?

What Labrador doesn't like rolling around in mud?

To the last poster:
These highly trained obedience dogs are not "rolling around in the mud" , they are trained for long sits and downs, which would require them to go down in mud, hardly the same thing as "rolling around in the mud ".

I'm a conformation person, but started in obedience, so am able to see both sides of this issue, perhaps everyone should try seeing both sides.

Harmful personal comments are hard to keep to one's self, but REALLY , is there this much ignorance and intolerance in this breed for different venues? We all train our dogs for specific venues, shall we not try to respect each others training choice?

Joan,

I understand your concerns, but I wanted to reply here so the Potomac board members will see this. (since I will not e-mail privately)

Not everyone is upset with the change. I think it will be great! Great for the obedience competitors who will now be inside. Great for the club. Great for the dogs who won't have to contend with hundreds of bitches in season.

True, I'm not planning on entering in obedience, but I do participate in obedience at other shows.

For me, Potomac is not an obedience show. I drive 18 hours across country to see wonderful dogs in the show ring that I won't otherwise see. I want to study my catalog and see what studs are producing what.

I want to chat with other breeder friends that I only see once or twice a year.

The way I see it, even if someone does enter both, the odds of conflicts are much lower at a 4 day show.

Plus, I know from doing obedience at other shows, if there is a conflict, the obedience judges are usually good about respecting the breed ring and allowing others to come late, or participate early. I once missed my rally advanced time because of the breed ring, and the judge let me do it after the rest of the rally classes were finished.


Thank you to all of the members of the Potomac club and the Board for all of your hard work! You put on a great show!!!

It goes both ways. If you love the change, let the board know.

It goes both ways. I was considering entering for both (conformation is ALWAYS my priority) and I will not now.
Once I arrive at Potomac, I park and set up my ex pens, tarps on van, etc. I do not move until I take down my set up to leave.
This would make it impossible for me to get to the alternate site, so I will not enter.
Also, as an exhibitor for several years now, I always enjoy stopping and glancing at whats happening in the Ob ring as I walk back and forth. I found it somewhat inspiring.
Guess that won't be happening anymore either.

I compete in both conformation and obedience, although more conformation lately. Sadly, moving obedience off-site also means I would never enter both forms of competition.

If you want to move the obedience/rally indoors, I would suggest using the banquet room at the hotel as you do for veterans gala.

If there's not enough room and the cost is the issue, then I think the club truly needs to revisit a new location for the entire show. It has out-grown it's current show site long ago.

Club needs to define it's goals and priorities for the show. I'm thinking that Potomac is probably going to be just a "conformation" only show with this split-off of the obedience/rally to a different location.

I competed in the Novice A class at the 2007 show, my first time in the ring, it was pelting rain.

Its a memory and watching my girl hold her stays before her breeder rushed her off to show in the Open Yellow class is something I won't soon forget.

I think its a bad move. For the show, for the community. But thats just my opinion.

The website for the obedience venue lists 300.00 a day for rental charges, four days is 1200.00, club board must have approved spending that amount of money. Does it expect to recoup it from obedience entries?

...even tho my common sense says to stay out of this, since we probably won't be attending Potomac this year.
We show in both obedience and conformation. The decision to move obedience/rally obviously makes some people happy, and others unhappy. Labs are an all purpose dog and should be able to compete in obedience in all conditions. Many do. Mine did last year. And qualified. And titled. In the rain. In the mud. Would I ask her to do that again? No. Would she? Yes, I believe she would. Is it fair to her? I don't know the answer to that one, but I do know how my gut felt as she sat and laid down and held her stay in the cold muck.
That having been said, it is every owner's decision whether to show a dog in the conditions that are presented on the day of the competition, whether it be breed or obedience. I have lost entry fees on occasion when I have decided not to compete for various reasons. But that was MY decision. Mine to make. Not made by a club who changed the location of the venue without input from membership and its Board of Directors. I think the obedience/rally venue should be changed back to its location at the host hotel. Let those who enter BOTH conformation and obedience, or just obedience, weigh in on their opinions via a written questionnaire, with names, and make future decisions regarding location accordingly.
This is a mess that has many people upset, understandably so. The club should do what it can to address this situation. JMHO.

Is this thread going astray too? The first thread about the split made it clear there were lots of opinions out there. But unless the board hears about it from INDIVIDUALS, they don't know if it is only a handful of people complaining dozens and dozens of time. The idea is to write to the LRCP board and let them know what YOU think. All the email addresses are in the first post, making it easy to write. Do it!

Joan. You're an angel & a hard worker in many venues. I highly respect you & have for 30 years.

As far as this change, I don't think anyone could possibly voice that they love it until after the fact. I hope that doesn't happen to be pefectly honest. There was no reason to make the change.

Thank you for posting the e-mail addresses we can write to. I wrote my e-mail with my thoughts. It's good for us exhibitors to all have an opinion on an attempted change that was always the same for over 35 years.

Thanks for helping those of us unaware of this drastic change by posting all of this information. I was unaware because I don't read these blog boards. I was sent here by a friend in the breed who read your posting yesterday. Thanks to both of you.

I think it's wonderful that we have so many great venues for obedience these days. Perfect locations, perfect environments and perfect scores. That's what people want and that's what they'll get from Potomac 2012. What you won't get is atmosphere, shopping, friends and 1,000 Labrador entries.

"That having been said, it is every owner's decision whether to show a dog in the conditions that are presented on the day of the competition, whether it be breed or obedience."

Excellent point. I know I have chosen at least 2 times not to show in conformation during the Summer when it happened our ring time (outdoors) day of show was noonish in 90 degree humid weather.

I show in all 3 venues when I have gone to Potomac. One thing not being considered is those of us who drive there with friends -- my friends don't show in rally/obedience. The problem is that I go in a van with other people. Therefore I don't have a way to get to an off site venue with my dogs and I will not be able to enter rally/obedience if I go to Potomac and they are not at the hotel so the club will be losing my entries no matter how "nice" the other site is. I have shown my dogs outside in all types of weather. If I didn't feel it was safe or in their best interest I would (and have) pull them but I am against the moving of rally/obedience to a separate venue just based on what the weather might do.

I am really upset that there is no word coming from the club about this. I have read all the threads on here and on other boards, and the majority of people are angry about the secret split of the specialty into two shows. I've seen lots of good reasons for the show to stay as one intact specialty, and zero good reasons for it to be split into two shows. Zip. Nada. Really, the price of hay is expensive and the lavatories are too far way for the obedience people? That's what the obedience chairman said. Weather is weather and everyone gets the same weather. How much hay do they put in those obedience rings anyway? And they could put a toilet in the parking lot next to the obedience ring if some people can't walk to the jiffy johns or into the hotel. The last time saw the jiffy johns, you could walk to them in less than a minute from any ring.

I've seen lots of names of people against the split...but where are the names of the people responsible and the names of those few club members who wanted an indoor show across town? I guess they don't think we are worth answering....just good for spending our money.

oh M, give it a rest already LOL LOL

I can't find a Deb H in conformation, obedience, or rally in the last three catalogs.

And was 2007 the last time you competed in rally or obedience at Potomac?

of course you can't find a Deb H in the catalog, no such person. the REAL person (not really so annonymous) is using fake names to sound more legit LOL LOL

You have to go back a bit further and there is a Deb H in the catalog. Deb may not attend every year like some people but then again I know plenty of people that don't attend every year. Maybe she was planning on attending in 2012 and exhibiting in both venues....now it would be extremely difficult to do so. People who have attended and exhibited only a couple of times as well as the "regulars" are entitled to their own opinion and are entitled to express that opinion whether you agree with it or not.

I wish all you people would grow up, use your real names and have a legitimate discussion rather than worthless anonymous claptrap. The have been lots of people using their real names and posting legitimate opinions. The anonymous posters should just be ignored since their posts are meaningless and often just plain wrong.

Doesn't sound like you hunt waterfowl. I think too many people are forgetting that our beloved breed was developed as a hunting dog - and you don't hunt in a building, under a roof on a dry concrete floor with matting.

Weather's bad? Suck it up; the dogs can do it!

And was 2007 the last time you competed in rally or obedience at Potomac?[/quote]

The only time!

I remember her and she didn't attend before or after. I heard it was sour grapes but that's only heresay as it went through a few people until I heard it. That's beside the point how many times she was there. She's not a board member or a club member that wasn't asked their opinion before the change went through initially. She's not even from the States.

Her breeder is at the Potomac almost if not every year come rain, snow or the sky is falling in. She's a nice woman so don't guilt her by association. Ask her what her opinion is. Don't go by someone she mentored a little.

The main theme of this is how things happened quietly, the small amount of people, that wanted this and the few that still do. Some never bred 1 litter ever!

How come the board and membership wasn't consulted until they had to be? That was all done after it was already posted on AKC and booked with the indoor facility. Why? Because the person who finally sent out a letter telling the membership buried this part in the letter along with requests for class sponsorships. It worked, some didn't notice. Now that they have and others are writing letters, what is the board going to do about it?

The only time!

I remember her and she didn't attend before or after. I heard it was sour grapes but that's only heresay as it went through a few people until I heard it. That's beside the point how many times she was there. She's not a board member or a club member that wasn't asked their opinion before the change went through initially. She's not even from the States.

Her breeder is at the Potomac almost if not every year come rain, snow or the sky is falling in. She's a nice woman so don't guilt her by association. Ask her what her opinion is. Don't go by someone she mentored a little.
[/quote]

At least Melissa has the guts to post her name...and what does any of this have to do with the price of coffee these days? Seriously. She went once. She's not living on the sales from her puppies like many of you are, or faking names on OFA's like what happens many a times, or even, refusing to do EIC testing. So...the fact that she's only been able to attend once doesn't make her any less of a person, there can me many reasons why that is...and that really is non of your business.

And you weren't asked your opinion either. No body really was. That, is the point. Joan was just giving you an opportunity to voice your opinion either way about the change to Potomac venues.

So, take your crappy perspectives and keep them to yourself.

Not really. You labeled this thread Potomac protest. And anyone who says anything different is attacked.

The split venue affects the specialty and people have a right to vent. This was a secret act by a few people. People have a right to be upset by it. The only way to make people aware of the split and how anyone feels about it is to speak up. Too bad there is no reply from the people who did this, unless these are the "attacks" someone mentioned.

Sorry you don't believe that I exist so here is the proof - photo of one of my dogs with a rally ribbon at Potomac.
http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ali041108.jpg

Besides going to show I have helped staff the LABMED booth. I can't afford to go every year but had planned to attend in 2012.

Deb H.
PS I always post as Deb H. and have for years. I don't post often so maybe there is another using my name but I use my name and am polite on this forum when I post. I am not trying to cause trouble but merely point out that not everyone travels by themselves so there could be transportation issues for those of us who drive out with friends to share expenses.

When did you get that ribbon?

Deb H2, you should be mortified by your own remarks. You made a big fool out of yourself about a real woman, using her real name and who has attended The Potomac. She gives of herself in the breed as I'm sure you don't or you would know her.

I met Deb H briefly at the Labmed booth. Lo and behold, she is one of the quilters of that large, beautiful quilt auctioned yearly to help fund sick Labradors thru Labmed.

She gave her website and photograph. What are you going to show us about you and your real name which is not Deb H2? Nothing. All you do is look through catalogs, missed a name and then used a fake name yourself.

Go back to learning how to read, spell, apologize and behave yourself.

I read just fine. Deb H wasn't in the last three Potomac catalogs because she didn't enter those years. And I am not H2.

Still waiting...no explaination from Potomac yet?

Just HOW do you know this? And who are YOU? I think you are the same one posting on all the threads since you are very defensive. Lol lol

You *reality check* reply to H2's questions, act like H2 and who gives you the right to question a named person when she got a ribbon at the Potomac? You have testicles, I hope you're a dog not a bitch.

It's not yearly everyone gets a ribbon in any venue. A matter of fact, we're lucky to get 1 ribbon at that show. Oh I know, you place or win in all your classes. So the person you're questioning might have been to the Potomac 20 years in a row but she stated she was not. It's not your business when she attended or will. Her statement is she wanted to attend in 2012 and can't if the venue is split. She speaks like a lady and doesn't question you about your plans or when you attended. So why do you harrass her?

So go crawl away with the other couple of nameless people that tried changing the venue. Last I heard, it might be changed back to 1 show if enough complaints keep coming in.

Keep them coming in if you're unhappy breeders.

Reality Check wrote: When did you get that ribbon?

The date was clearly in the name of the photo. I have nothing to hide. My husband had a heart attack the next year so I couldn't attend and was out of the country last year so I couldn't attend. I want to go in 2012 pending a ride with friends and what I can work out for showing my dogs but with split sites it is less likely to work out since if I travel that far (I believe it is about 1,000 miles) I want to show in multiple classes. I may wait to see what happens with that in 2013. What does that matter? I have been on show committees, I have been obedience chair and agility chair of specialties as well as all breed trials and a national specialty so I am not naive about how these things work. I'll look up the years if you want that info, too. My point was valid and presented respectfully no matter what years I have participated in Potomac.
Deb H.
PS I don't think I caught your name or web site.....

LRCP members received an email/letter from club's Pres. today.

Presumeably, that means you are a member and received it -- so, what did it say?

I don't have permission to copy/paste the letter. It's pretty long. Gave a summary of reasons for the move.

It says though they have received numerous suggestions through the years both verbal and through feedback on the club's website that they find better accommodations for the events. A wake up call was in 2011 when 2 exhibitors were injured, and further investigation revealed in 2010 a dog was injured.

They explored the possibility of the hotel ball room but cost was prohibitive.

I don't think I can get into any trouble for copying just this little paragraph:

"As in the recent past, the Show Committee is planning four Obedience and four Rally trials. To address the problems created for those few exhibitors who compete in both Conformation AND Obedience and Rally, the Show Committee will publish a TENTATIVE judging schedule in the Show Premium to help minimize conflicts."

Said they also appreciated the constructive and respectful emails and calls.

At the bottom of the president's email it says;

PS. This email is addressed to LRCP members. Please feel free to forward it to any interested party.

So can it be posted or just past on? What do the rest of you think without sarcastic remarks pls.

Also does anyone know of these supposed injurys in the past 2 years? That could happen any year, wet, dry, cold or hot. I fell to my knees 1 year, gashed and wrenched my leg and knee entering the conformation ring. I never said anything to the club. Sure I'm not the only exhibitor to hurt themself in 37 years. I saw it happen at another show also. Once again that was in the conformation ring not obedience rally.

OK, I received permission this morning to share:

December 10, 2011

Dear LRCP Members,

I am writing to inform you of an important decision the Board recently made regarding the upcoming Spring Specialty. Next Spring for the first time, the Club will hold all Obedience and Rally trials at a new, indoor location a few minutes from the hotel. This decision was not made casually or without considerable thought. I want you to know some of the facts and the options we explored.

Collectively, we all have spent considerable time in that green space the hotel calls "the picnic area". We like to think we know it well, every gopher hole and drainage pattern. But even in the best of years, navigation by exhibitor and Labrador alike can be problematic. Conformation exhibitors almost seem to enjoy sucking-it-up and muddling through. But such isn’t always the case in the Obedience and Rally ring where Rally trials are timed and every “peculiar” smell a distraction. Over the years we have received numerous suggestions both verbal and through the feedback link on the Club website, that we seek “better accommodations” for these events. Then, in 2011, we received a wake up call: two exhibitors were injured. Upon investigation we learned that in 2010 a dog was injured as well.

The show committee explored several options including holding these events in the hotel ballroom. That option turned out to be financially prohibitive. A Club member who lives in the area proposed the use of a local indoor facility and the show committee checked it out. Other than the fact that it is a short distance from the hotel, this facility fully meets our requirements. Moreover, because our events are held mid-week, the Club was able to secure very favorable terms. The show committee researched the number of Potomac exhibitors who, because they compete in both Conformation and Obedience/Rally events, would potentially be inconvenienced by this move. That number turned out to be relatively small, albeit important. All things considered the decision to move to this new location seems to be our best option. The show committee secured the site and presented the proposal to the Board for approval at the most recent meeting. The motion passed.

The Board has received a number of emails alleging, among other things, that the new venue is expensive (not true), that the Board was somehow not involved in the decision (not true), that the Show Committee and the Board did not solicit input from the membership (not true), that the Show Committee did not consider the inconvenience to exhibitors (not true and see below) and finally, that a small group of conspirators has somehow hijacked the Obedience and Rally trials. Again, NOT TRUE.

As in the recent past, the Show Committee is planning four Obedience and four Rally trials. To address the problems created for those few exhibitors who compete in both Conformation AND Obedience and Rally, the Show Committee will publish a TENTATIVE judging schedule in the Show Premium to help minimize conflicts.

The constructive and respectful phone calls and emails both supporting and against this change are greatly appreciated. Change is difficult. And while this Club has a reputation for being innovative, not everything we have tried has been applauded. As in the past, if this change turns out to be less than it is hoped for I am sure the Club will reconsider the options promptly.

I am confident that the Board and the Show Committee have made every effort to consider the best interests of the majority of Club members and Potomac exhibitors. If you don’t share my confidence and you would like to make a positive contribution to the Club, I encourage you explore serving your Club as a Board member, volunteering to work on a show committee or other activity or even attending a Board Meeting to learn how the Board and the Club operates. We seem to always have room for more good help.

Respectfully,


Krista Beal
conclusion@erols.com

PARDON?

See, this is what you get when you post your name on this board and exactly why I do not have a Labrador puppy sitting in my lap. What on earth is wrong with you people? I am not allowed to have an opinion, being I participated in an event as listed?

I've attended the Potomac TWICE. How many times have you attended 'Once'? Entered in Obedience? I attended in 2007, and 2009. I traveled with friends both times. I don't see what this has to do with the thread, and WHAT SOUR GRAPES? I don't attend because I live alone and have multiple dogs, once of whom is unwell and won't leave them boarding, I love my dogs. Period.

And exactly what does my place of residence have to do with this? So everyone who is responding here is a resident of the USA and a member of the club? I didn't know that that was criteria for having or expressing an opinion.

Yes, Denise is a lovely person and a wonderful friend. I am happy for her that she is able to attend every year, when she returns, usually we discuss her time at the show. I am greatly indebted to her for giving me such a lovely girl and being such a great friend. Now, who is placing any guilt on her by any association? Who did that? But again, what does this have to do with this thread?

Both times I have traveled to the Potomac I have had a phenomenal time with friends and the dogs. The second time I went, I missed my class accidentally ...socializing with new 'friends'. No sour grapes here "Once"...get a life. It seems you are the one with sour grapes.

I replied here because I have competed with my girl at the potomac, in the pouring rain. Have you "Once"? If not, then what use is it to post here. How do you "know" me?

I have left my email address attached here, please, 'Once' feel free to contact me privately, I want to know who you are, you malicious coward.



I am giving it a rest. Entirely.

Labrador breeders make me sick sometimes.

OMG - what a bunch of bickering! Actions speak louder than words....if you don't like the set up for this show....DON'T GO. If you don't like the set up for the show....get on a committee and change it. JMHO

What a relief to have an answer. There is no point in complaining on the forum. If you wrote to the board, you did your part and you know your opinion was heard. I am sure there were many responses. Now we can move on to other discussions.

Not a real answer when it is not factual. How long are their noses now after saying not true so many times. You don't have to be on the xfiles to know that the truth is out there. It sure isn't in here.