Every now and again, I go to the AKC site to see how sales are going with Labrador pups. Yes, sales. Years ago you never saw a well known breeder advertising. But, unfortunately things have changed. I happened to see a VERY well known breeder on the AKC classified site. I have a question which will surely open a can of worms, but, that's the way it goes. This breeder, again, very well known did not put their adorable, huge, overdone, pretentious website on the contact info. I don't have a problem with any of that as long as it's honest. My next question is, why would they leave that valuable information off their classified contact info. Also, I have a problem with the Dam's lack of health clearances.

Here we go again, someone with an ax to grind against another breeder. Let it go.

In the words of Jill: "Be Happy, Be Kind".

I am happy and kind, just asking a question. No axe to grind. I'm waiting for happy, kind explanation to a very simple question.

You are not waiting for an answer you are stirring up trouble! If you were really worried you would call or email the well known breeder and ask them! Maybe there is a very good reason why the certifications were not all there, I remember a top stud dog that did not have a hip number owned by a "TOP Breeder" she knew he had an injury and he produced many beautiful pups. Give folks a break!

See through. What a wishy washy answer. All info is not on the site, how about no info on the site. And how lame, a bad hip not being on the site, but, made nice puppies. Yes, I want people to be held accountable for their actions. People trust breeders and I expect breeders to give the people the truth. Pet buyers should know everything about the breeder and dogs they breed, if need be, down to the dogs blood type.

Why is it such a big deal for ANY breeder, well-known or newbie to use the AKC website. It's a reputable site, this is nothing new. Such a trival thing to bring up. Who cares? Perhaps they forgot to put their website in the listing. Sure there was a good reason, why don't you call them up and ask them?

I agree AKC website is a good tool for selling pups. That wasn't the question. My question is, how come no website mentioned. I'm sure the breeder will come onto the forum with an explanation and why her Dam's or their clearances aren't on her site. If all is on the up and up this shouldn't be a problem.

The breeder is on the east coast.

As I said before, if you are interested, call the Breeder directly, . If it is that important to you to know someone else's business.

Well Anne, unless you are specifically wanting a puppy from this breeder, what's it to you and how is it any of your business what someone else does or does not do?
If you are wanting a puppy from this breeding I'm sure a simple phone call will answer your question.

Why the hell do you care, find a good cause and use that energy to do some good. Again you are truing to stir the pot, you even pointed out where the Breeder is from. Move on because as you can see, folks are not buying it and they are tired of attacks.

Nebwie,ABC. It's not important, it's curiosity.

MEAN, BITTER, TROUBLE MAKER, NASTY............ me thinks!

People being honest and reputable, that's what it means to me, so it makes it my business. I guess people forget this. Oh, it's a small thing, sweep it under the carpet. Make excuses, it's everyone's business.

If you look at the AKC breeder listings there are about five so called "Big" or "Ultimate" breeders the first 3-4 pages without their clearances on both or one dog. They also check all health tests are done required for the breed. I find this an issue not because of where or how they posted their litter's that is their business.

The issue I have have is those "Wonderous Breeder's" will be the first to jump on someone for clearances like they are the leading authority.......

Anyway interesting reading that AKC litter listing, great to take notes for future reference, and we all know there will be an opportunity to consult your list.

JMO

No, me thinks not , mean, nasty, bitter. How about truthful? Why are people having such a problem with truthful?

Anne, There are several reasons why clearances not being listed. What if the bitch was PennHip and the elbows are prelim normal at 22 months old. Nothing would show up on OFA but clearances are done. Wouldnt you look foolish if this was the case? Like most replies, you have been instructed to contact the breeder to find out the answer you are seeking. Arguing with each reply wont win you over any friends here especially when you dont take everyone's advise to go ask the breeder. You will never know the truth unless you call the breeder. Go now... contact the breeder.....then go hug your dogs.......

Not the OP Anne.
Yeah, I saw that listing and I also saw the terms that she has checked. How many times can someone lie and get away with it? Just because you say you comply with the Parent Club Code does not mean that you do. So, if you read that someone says things that are not true, you can't believe anything they say.

There is a saying, people in glass houses should not throw stones.

Could be their web site isn't up to date and won't have the parents of this litter to look at. Could be the bitch has prelims that don't appear on OFA's website. Could be you should take up bird watching.

Gosh, Anne, you didn't include your email address or your website so the breeder can contact you to answer your questions.
Just an oversight, I'm sure.

Well said, NewbieABC .. Just think, if you put all this time that you are using/wasting worrying about someone else's breeding program into your own, WOWZERS!! You'd be leading the pack!

"Years ago you never saw a well known breeder advertising. But, unfortunately things have changed."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with advertising - actually you can be more selective with choosing families when more are inquiring.

Advertising is fine...truthful advertising. It affects everyone who breeds Labradors when someone represents themselves as reputable and honest when it has been proven that they are not. Not just omitting a clearance, but outright lies. It puts everyone who represents themselves as a reputable breeder in question when you have someone who is part of that "group" doing dishonest and unethical things.
No glass houses...just the truth.

Out of curiosity, I decided to go to the AKC site and look at the puppy listings. Wow, they updated that site. Looks nice. I then started to look Nationwide just to see and go thru the East Coast area. OMG, OMG, OMG, it took me less than 5 minutes to figure out that this took way more energy that I found acceptable. Man, I've got to go buy some pine chips/shavings, my backyard looks like *&*!()(@#*$)!. I don't know how anyone would have time to go thru this even out of curiousity and find out what other breeders are doing and not doing dishonestly! Holy S*!*@)#*#)@)*#*#&!!! Lady you realize that takes a lot of negative energy on your part. The New Year is coming and if I were you I would just drop this subject. As I said before, I'll say it again, Call The Breeder in Question and just ask. You may be surprised. When I have questions, I do it all the time, I know they may think I might be Nuts but for the most part, everyone has been quite nice to me!!! I'm a blabber and like to talk to much but at least I don't go behind people's back's (hope that I correctly worded this, sorry if my grammer & tenses are off) Off to the feed store to take care of my yard then the kitchen!!!! Only a few more days until the New Year and my resolution is to make sure the house is clean and I make my black-eyed peas!!! Woot! Woot!

Well said Anne 2. I wish I could be that articulate, I just sound nasty. By the way, it took less than 5 mins. to see well known breeders on the AKC site. And, it was not my intention to look for trouble, people just put it out there. I think the AKC site is a good way to advertise. The layperson trusts it. TRUST, TRUTH, HONESTY.

Now I realize this forum and the way this thread started may have ticked people off, but the implications/concerns are valid.

I think the bigger problem is some of the Well known Long time breeders act like the rules don't apply to them. "So what if my bitch has prelims and Failed finals, we'll just breed on prelims, so what if my stud dog failed hips, his pedigree is worth it." Now that's okay for them, but someone who's been in the breed say even 10+ years attempts something like that they get thrown the "Shame on you Newbie" card. Just because you've been in the breed a long time does not make breeding a bitch or stud dog that failed a clearance Multiple times Especially if the offspring perpetuate the bad clearance any better than someone who hasn't been in the breed as long. Well known or not.. how does it do the breed any good. A respected long time breeder once told me that 10% of the stud dog population produces 90% of the puppies...so if he failed a clearance, wow, what a state that puts those 90% of puppies in. I understand genetics, but with SO many in the gene pool already, at some point we need to take an honest look at our dogs and say a failed clearance is a failed clearance and pet that dog or bitch out.
If not so well known new breeders are expected by well know long time breeders to walk the straight and narrow, why don't they practice what they preach?? It goes both ways.

Clearances do not fail dogs. This is not a process of elimination, they are tools , period.

I learned long ago that the dog world is full of crazy people. I keep my nose in my own back yard, I keep a circle of friends that are open minded even if we do not believe in the same things, and I try to do the best by my dogs. I don't have a big operation and I never will and I make sure what I do is acceptable to me and the breed. I am not doing this to pass the scrutiny of the breeding police who have nothing better to do. Get a life.

How do you know that the dogs bred failed any of their clearances??? There are a lot of assumptions being brought up.

When you know the facts, it is not an assumption. Don't assume.

It wouldn't matter what clearances your bitch had. If she produced an orthopedic problem 75% of the time then she should be spayed even if she was OFA excellent with normal elbows. If she produced no orthopedic problems and she had a bad elbow then I would never have a problem with that.

Also, I really don't care what you do with your dogs. You are the one that has to live with the results....not me.

Oh yes and that stud dog is STILL being used, and still producing HD. But hey, who cares, he is pretty :)
BTW, injury my a$$$$$$$$$!

-I think the bigger problem is some of the Well known Long time breeders act like the rules don't apply to them.-

It's got nothing to do with "the rules don't apply to them". It's got everything to do with real dog people knowing what's important and how to use their years of experience and pedigrees. Clearances are only part of the dog. You have to take everything into account. Consider the good and the bad, determine what you're trying to achieve and weigh all the facts. There are plenty of good dogs out there that have never taken a bad step who don't get all their clearances. There are an equal number who have all their clearances who produce unsound progeny. "Long time breeders" are not stupid people. They've been in it a long time because they're sensible.

Before you talk, listen.
Before you react, think.
Before you spend, earn.
Before you criticize, wait.
Before you pray, forgive.
Before you quit, try.

You can't quit until you try
You can't live until you die
You can't learn to tell the truth
Until you learn to lie

You can't breathe until you choke
You gotta laugh when you're the joke
There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

Just open your eyes
Just open your eyes
And see that life is beautiful.

Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to the light.
- George Washington