http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/01/09/mandatory-spay-and-neutering-proposed-for-city-dogs-and-cats/

Mandatory spay/neuter law for ALL dogs in St. Louis....

Perhaps you missed this sentence in the story:

"Also, anyone who wants to breed their dogs would need a “hobby breeders” licence."

(BTW, the "licence" typo is their error, not mine.)

Yup - totally missed that! Thank you!

When will all these crooked politicians and lawmakers realize that Mandatory Spay/Neuter Laws DON'T work? Why do these f*cking Animal Rights groups keep trying to take away OUR rights to make our own decisions on whether or not we want to alter our animals and when it's safe to do so if that's what WE choose? I am so sick of all this government intrusions into our lives.

I totally agree that spay/neuter laws don't work; hunters and responsible breeders and the families they place dogs with are not the problem and should be left alone. But put yourself in the shoes of some of these rescue organizations and answer the question "what should be done?"

These groups have had it and are sick and tired of the horrors they see and the piles of dead dogs they dispose of each and every week. So if their reaction is to lash out at ALL dog owners, then, can you not understand why?

We, as breeders, can help the situation by policing our own and continuing to educate the public. But also by opening our doors and our perfect dog/puppy set ups to a few dogs/puppies a year. We know how to whelp and care for a momma afterward, we know the importance of placing the right dog in the right situation and we know how to brief new dog/puppy families on such important things as discipline, exercise, proper nutrition etc.

So if we can find room in our hearts and homes for our beloved Labs, then why not a few rescues, too?

It just might help our reputation with the rescue groups in our areas and perhaps someday they will realize that we are not the enemy. But neither are they. They are in the trenches every day doing things I know I couldn't do!!

Let's give rescue groups a break and help, not hinder the monstrous problem we have in this country.

Maybe so, but I bet this law would make it VERY difficult for one to get a hobby breeder license. I bet there would be some hefty fees involved in getting one.

Also will make a nice, handy hitlist for the AR groups when they request names & address of all license-holders via the public records law.

So, Mary, when they get to your name on the hit list, ask how you can help, ask if there are any dogs/mommas/puppies who need fostering.

By offering to help, you just might deflect some of their understandable frustration!!!!

The ARs I am speaking of, HSUS and PETA, do not do any fostering, rescuing or sheltering, and thus they will not be needing my help.
Thank you for your interest.
And get over yourself.

In my country are spay/neuter campaigns. Vets go house by house spaying and neutering everything in their path for free (the government pays for it). That is called taking action.

Mary, people should be able to come to this forum for an INTELLIGENT exchange of thoughts and ideas, especially when those thoughts and ideas can help solve a problem.

I don't know what the answer is but the problem isn't getting any better. And those of us who claim to love dogs can do more good than harm IF we can remain open and respectful to others trying to help!!!

And, I agree, there are some groups doing more harm than good but the majority of the "down in the trenches" rescue groups are on the same page with the rest of us.

INDEED!!!!!

If they came to my house they would be leaving on a gurney.

I totally agree Mary. The rescuers are also left in the wake of what these AR groups do. Many of the seizures that they do to gain publicity and get more donations are ILLEGAL. They overwhelm the shelters by seizing dozens of animals at a time and then DUMPING them themselves on already overwhelmed shelters. It is not the shelters who are pushing for this legislation, it is the Animal Rights groups. Shelters know that the numbers of euthanasia is going down. Shelters are located locally in the community and know what is needed in that community. Local spay/neuter outreach groups are very common and helpful for reducing number of unwanted pets. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR MSN!!! This is one way for the AR groups to fulfill their plan of ZERO pet population.

Yes rescuer GET OVER YOURSELF!

What, exactly, do I need to get over???? And how does that immature, uncalled for comment help anything??? I have just as much right as anyone to come to this forum with an opinion based on my experiences.

I can assure you, I am not a tree hugging, save anything kind of person and I value my liberties as much as the next guy but I do live in an area where the numbers of stray cats and dogs being euthanized is overwhelming. And these are not animals illegally seized from some loving person's home to prove a point!!! They are strays, offspring of strays and they are wandering, suffering, procreating...

What is your suggestion, 'cause so far, nothing is working????

I think the answer is strict leash laws. At least in urban and suburban areas.

There is no right to breeding dogs in the Constitution from what I understand. It is called democracy. Stop dumbing down the debate. I'm not saying that law is a good idea, BTW.

Oh contraire, efforts have been working for years. Becoming more proactive than reactive (as you are in this case) has reduced the number of animals euthanized each year from over 10 million back in the 80s to less than 3 million today. I agree that is still too many, but you also have to see what type of animals are being euthanized. Many are feral cats or are not adoptable due to age, health or temperament. Owner turn-ins for euthanasia are also included. Other "rescue" groups also IMPORT dogs and puppies because they have NONE to adopt out. They sell them, yes SELL, for $200 or more! The shelters are also in it to make money too.

The HSUS actually opposes feral cat colonies. Many cat rescue groups have been very successful in reducing the number of feral cats euthanized by trapping, spaying and releasing them. Cat rescues in my area are always asking for people who want barn cats. These groups are proactive. If was up to the HSUS, these cats would be as good as dead.

I have rescued/fostered/placed dogs for years. I have intercepted flights from Taiwan of crates full of puppies and held them for the ASPCA to pick up from me. So tell me if we have such a huge problem with overpopulation, why are they importing puppies from foreign countries?

To get over yourself means that you are not going to save the world, especially through MSN laws. In fact through any law why? Because you CANNOT legislate responsibility! The only ones it will hurt are those who are already responsible with their animals.



We already have leash laws on the books. How's that working for you? How can you make them stricter? Put people in jail for violating it? That's the problem with all these laws, MOST are not enforceable or simply ignored by irresponsible people. There simply aren't enough law enforcement personnel to handle leash law violators.

As long as dogs are OUR property, it is our right to own them and breed them or hunt with them or what ever we want to do to them as long as it is not deemed cruel (CA just got tougher anti-cruelty laws we'll see how well that is enforced). The animal rights people DO feel that dog breeding, no matter what scale, is cruelty! However, when they get their foot in the door with these MSN laws, then we are losing freedoms.

How is it "dumbing down" the debate over MSN when we know that well duh in order for the law to go through it MUST be sponsored by um gee a politician-GET IT? Remember the PAWS law a few years ago? That was written and introduced by OMG a politician. Ok, so he didn't get mega campaign contributions from the AR groups to keep up support for pro AR legislation.....or did he? You tell me how it works since I'm obviously stupid about how everything works.

The solution to the pet overpopulation problem? Some will argue that there isn't even one http://www.spanieljournal.com/33lbaughan.html. No-kill groups are taking over this country and are being opposed by HSUS and PETA. They are proactive groups that go out and compete with pet shops over placing dogs. They offer community outreach to help people pay for spay/neutering. There was even a post on here knocking a no-kill shelter for wanting to offer a free clinic for low-income families with pets.

Ok, I'll stick by the GET OVER YOURSELVES comment.

they should not be working there. Many shelter workers "give up". Many don't care.

One of the worst things I saw recently was a pile of 3-4 month old dead pitbull puppies. Beautiful, healthy, young dogs. Why were they killed? Because they had the misfortune of being born in a county that, thanks to the AR idiots and elected officials, passed breed specific legislation. They banned pitbulls. So while the owner may or may not have been aware of the ban, the puppies were taken from him and KILLED because of the breed. Is this what this country is coming to?

Another high profile case was a hunting dog kennel in South Dakota. The HSUS raid the property, took all the dogs and puppies and turned them over to an unlicensed rescue. The HSUS packed up and left a week later leaving all the care to the rescuer. The search warrant was deemed illegal, 28 dogs died while in the care and more were born because the rescuer did not separate males and females. She was overwhelmed.

Nope sorry we don't need stricter laws. We do need to oppose ALL laws proposed to take away our rights as dog owners/breeders.

Part of the answer is educating the next generation about the importance of spaying and neutering, keeping your pet on a leash or under control with discipline, exercise, proper nutrition, treating all animals with respect etc, etc.

There are so many good people trying to do what is right by innocent animals. Encouraging, not mandating, people to spay or neuter their animals should not be frowned upon or looked at as an infringement of rights, just simply another form of information for pet owners. And, like it or not, it does help!!!

Enough said...

Just to clarify:
The owner decides if they want the free service or not. mostly everybody say yes.
They work mostly in low class areas.

Before you accuse anyone else of "dumbing down the debate" you might want to review your high school civics. You might even try actually reading the Constitution. Hint: the 5th and 14th Amendments contain something called the due process clause. It provides that our property (which our dogs happen to still be, PETA et al notwithstanding) cannot be taken (which has been interpreted to include restricting its use in any significant manner) without due process of law.

It's called Democracy . Try learning a little about it. It won't hurt.

A great service, wish we could start something like that here in the US and especially in the county we live in.

Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
― Thomas Jefferson

No thanks.

I will NEVER foster again. Did it once for a senior dog and ended up with kennel cough running through 8 dogs, including a 15½ year old.

There are other ways to help besides fostering. Oh and don't think PETA and HSUS aren't going after rescue people either.

I would make it illegal for shelters to import dogs from other shelters. Our local shelter imports animals from the southern states because they don't have enough adoptable dogs here. I think that is a case of simply enabling a problem to continue. If the northern states can keep their numbers under reasonable control why should we be importing animals from other states AND having endless fundraising campaigns because the shelters are always claiming to be on the brink of financial ruin from the numbers of dogs and cats they have to care for (that they just imported from the south). Give me a break!

"Part of the answer is educating the next generation about the importance of spaying and neutering, keeping your pet on a leash or under control with discipline, exercise, proper nutrition, treating all animals with respect etc, etc."

Gee with just a little tweaking this quote could be applied to humans! Why would we expect people to do better with animals then they do with themselves?

You sound like a real dog lover!

Maybe some people with soft hearts decided to HELP the southern shelters who are killing dogs on a daily basis because, through no fault of their own, they are unwanted.

It's heartbreaking to help out at those shelters, wondering if the sweet dog you just interacted with, took his photo and put it up on Petfinder will have any chance at getting a home.

I don't expect you could possibly understand.

"Gee with just a little tweaking this quote could be applied to humans! Why would we expect people to do better with animals then they do with themselves?"[/quote]



They're children, Debbie!!! If we expose them to the correct ways to care for animals, then perhaps the cycles will be broken. No one seems to have a problem with breaking the cycles of illiteracy, homelessness or domestic abuse???

Lighten up and offer the knowledge and good qualities that you possess as a reputable breeder. By setting a good example you distinguish yourself from the puppy mills and maybe, someday, someone will recognize the difference and leave us alone!!!

My high school civics teacher seemed to think that a vote of the legislature constituted due process of law.