I did DNA testing on my black girl to see what color she was carrying. This is the results:
BB S41C -/-, Q331X -/-, 345delP -/-

Can anyone tell me what this means cause I have no idea! LOL
TIA

No idea, but I want to guess that she is dominant black since they put BB in capitals, and the 3 genetic markers (or what look like markers) all have "-/-" behind them.

Does the company that did it have any hints on their website??

Sorry my mistake, I only tested if she was carrying chocolate. From what I have been told she is not carrying chocolate :)

She is pure black.

Not necessarily, she could be Ee at the E locus and carry yellow, just not chocolate.

Yes that what I thought... I didn't test her if she carries yellow, only if she carries chocolate or not.

You might want to also check the D locus. She could also be Dd

Stand corrected.

Can I ask what that means if he is Dd?

I think the poster was talking about the dilution gene (lowercase d). The post then meant that she could be black carrying a dilute gene, as in charcoal or silver colored Lab types. Not a worry in most lines.

Exactly what he meant. The d allele does NOT exist in the general population of Labradors. It never existed in the breed until it was introduced by a Weimaraner in the early 1980s. Just looking at the early crosses you could tell they were mixed with a Weim.

Please provide the empirical proof that makes this anything more than a baseless conjecture. Do you have DNA tests for this allele from across the population, both temporally and spatially?


Please provide the empirical proof that makes this anything more than a baseless conjecture.

One could be just as brazen and convincingly state: "Just looking at today's specialty Labs you could tell they were mixed with a Rottie" and be just as accurate in their conjecture based wholly on physical appearances and be just as off-base.

Someone mentions the dilution gene and the same old baseless attacks start. Big surprise.

Please don't start again. No one has any interest in what you have to say but your followers. It's been nice 'n ezy going here. Don't start your bologney about silvers, grays, charcoals or any color not listed with AKC to check off when pups are registered. Black_Yellow_Chocolate.

Sure do. Reputable breeders will NEVER accept this foreign gene. Someone has to stand up for our breed that you so callously want to ruin by breeding an unnatural color.

And then you conveniently show up to try to distract from the facts that there have NEVER been any reports of "dilute" Labradors until amazingly a high profile snake oil salesman starts touting them as rare. In the beginning it was thought to be a mutated gene since he was so ignorant to how the dilute gene worked. He just stuck to breeding chocolate dilutes, but as he spread his lies and uneducated opinion fueled by the all mighty dollar, others got a hold of these dogs from him and crossed them with the other 2 two colors and saw the dilute gene at work.

As the LRC states, "There is NO genetic basis for the Silver Lab".

Oh and the silver puppies that MRW speaks about. I've seen a color photo of them. They do not look like your silver/dilute puppies. They did turn black and it was suggested the odd coloration was "simply" due to a zinc deficiency.

I know you want to defend your dilutes, but REPUTABLE breeders ALL know the dilute is a FOREIGN gene. Not to mention, it is a disqualification under the standard and SHOULD NOT be bred.

There is also a better explanation here...
http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-dna-coat-color.html

I didn't start it.

For there being no interest it is amazing the number of views and replies "silver" topics get here on wiscoy.

My Labs ARE Black_Yellow_Chocolate. AKC registers it, Pigment substantiates it, DNA proves it.



Please provide the empirical DNA proof that the dilution gene is a foreign gene.

I guarantee you that there are breeders who you consider “reputable” that have produced it(or found it through DNA testing) and know of certainty that they have no foreign genes. They do not come forward due to this kind of negative perception from their would be peers. I have only learned about their situations through carefully building a relationship of trust. A couple even were initiated through posts just like this on wisocy and I invite anyone else here who has a dilution gene experience to contact me.

Lighter shades of Black Yellow and Chocolate are hardly unnatural, maybe hot pink or neon green would qualify as unnatural, but not light variations of Black Yellow and Chocolate!

Nice word play, you are right, there has never been any reports of “dilute” Labradors. They have not been known to be “dilute” gene carrying until just in the last decade or so. Before then they were called, “lead” “gray” “mousey” “pewter” “purply” “bluish” and yes, even “Silver.” Correct again that any other color than Black Yellow or Chocoalte is a disqualification, fortunately, dilution gene carrying Labs are simply Black Yellow or Chocolates, allowable colors.

I’d love to see Mary’s photo! How did you come by that photo, did she give it to you? Do you have blood work up on the puppies from that photo showing the Zink deficiency and DNA to prove they were not dilutes…can you incontrovertibly prove your claims?

I’m still awaiting the day that the LRC can provide the empirical genetic proof that there is no “genetic basis”…waiting…waiting…waiting……

Someone has to stand up for the cohort in our breed that you all so callously claim as non-Labrador and unworthy of life.

Always stirring the pot about your so-called Labradors. Not worth my time. REAL breeders know all about the dilute gene and avoid it like the plague because we don't have any thing to prove. Again, you are clueless. You claim and *guarantee* things that you know you can't back up so you try to cast doubt by turning the argument. We know what we know and that's all the proof I need.

Thank you again!
This has just got to be one of the most profound statements ever made in the great silver lab debate.

Always got to have the last word eh? You're really too much. Breeders all over the world who breed quality Labradors will all tell you the same thing. Silvers are NOT a true Labrador. We really don't need to waste our time trying to share our knowledge with someone who thinks he already knows it all. Good night.

I have 2 questions to any breeders who purposely breed "Silver", "Cream", "Charcoal"... and I mean no disrespect, I really am curious about the thinking.

1) When you exchange paperwork with a puppy buyer, do you firmly point out that they are purchasing a Chocolate, Yellow or Black Labrador Retriever? Or is that glossed over or do you actually tell people that they are purchasing an AKC registered Silver, Cream or Charcoal Labrador Retriever?

2) What is the fascination with changing the look of a particular breed? Are there any other breeds out there that are messed with as much as Labs?

Thanks for your time.

I cannot speak for every Silver breeder's practices, but I do make it abundantly clear that their Lab is Black, Yellow, or Chocolate and registered with the AKC as such. Never had a complaint, most already knew it.

For the other breeds, I can't speak to them, I'm a Lab person.

I've never seen a silver Labrador ever, not to mention here in Iceland! Never seen it.... I saw once a lab mix that was silver but the owner of that puppy said that he had a black labrador dam and a weimaraner sire and was therefore not a registered puppy.

Oh and one other thing... if the breeders love the silver color so much why not just start breeding Weimaraners??? Why do people always have to ruin other breeds and add something to that specific breed?? I don't understand that!!?? I mean if they don't like the black, yellow or chocolate color, why not just breed Weimaraner instead of mixing Labradors to weim to get that silver color??
Just saying...

For me colors is the least thing I think about when I am breeding... I think about health, temperament and conformation and I try to aim for the true Labrador who can both be a perfect family pet as well as a true Retriever!!! But that's just me

I wish someone would try this breeding and let us know what you get. Weimaraner sire bred to a black dam would only produce black and maybe chocolate puppies if the dam carries chocolate. No silvers would be produced unless the black dam was Dd.


Also ever puppy I have ever sold was plain as day pointed out that the pups were registered as black, chocolate or yellow. That is their coat color Dilute black- Charcoal Dilute chocolate-silver and Dilute yellow- champagne. If you take hair from a chocolate and a silver there is little different under a microscope.

There is no way to know what that the black Lab used in Hildur's example was a pure Lab either and as we know the dilute gene is NOT in nor has ever been in the general population of Labs. It was added in the 1980s from a Weim.

I could easily duplicate this scenario by breeding my chocolate bitch to a Weim and keep a brother/sister littermate and breed them together. I would get silvers. Pretty simple. They would look exactly like any other silver out there.

The lies that were spread about breeders who "couldn't produce the color themselves" was so misleading. Any breeder worth their salt knew exactly how to breed for that IF that's what we wanted. We didn't because it's not a native gene to the Labrador.

So copper, you register your dilutes as a non-dilute color. Then you tell the unsuspecting buyer that it is a charcoal or blue or silver. THAT IS FRAUD! Those are not shades of the registered color, it is the DILUTE gene (foreign to the breed) at work. All other breeds that have an acceptable dilute gene are registered under those colors (blue danes, blue/fawn dobermans, etc). DILUTE BREEDERS COMMIT FRAUD WITH EVERY SALE. So sad.

Not quite!!! But you wish!

one breeder of
Silvers offered a $100,000 Silver Lab Challenge to any to
these “experts” who wished to put their money where their
mouth was concerning their accusations surrounding the
ancestry of the silver labs. This offer was out there for all you for a full week. And to the man, not one of
those “experts” you see on the internet was willing to
stand behind their Flat Earth accusations regarding Silver
Labs.

The reason no one can prove the mix is because we ALL know that there is NO DNA test that will determine the actual breed. DNA tests can only prove the parentage. Since these crosses happened a few generation back, the parents would be correct (as would my brother to sister cross from a weim and chocolate lab). However, there was one early silver breeder that was suspended from AKC because the DNA did not match.

We now know that silver color is a direct result of the dilute gene. It's quite clear to reputable breeders who have studied, researched and bred many litters over the years, that the dilute gene is not part of the breed. That's enough proof for me.

I grew up with Weims and my parents had bred some really nice hunting stock with our bitch so I'm pretty well accustomed to what the breed looks like so I'm amused at the thought of Silvers,I do know a Weim when I see it.
I can't imagine wanting to cross that breed with Labs, but if you want to see a litter from about 40 years ago of Weim puppies that look like Labs just go on my website and on our "about us" page is our Weim bitch Senta who was accidently bred by our neighbors English Springer Spaniel. They all were black, except for a little tell tale white on their toes.They looked like Black Weimeraners. (PS the one in the back is actually a "silver" or pewter - cat!! Our cat Omar)

In the U.S. the labrador is the no. 1 breed for approximately 20 years. Most young familes with or without children, want a Labrador. I don't know where the silvers go mostly but it's not where I live.

Weimaraners don't sell the way Labradors do. They're higher strung & not what the no. 1 breed is for reasons.

I hope that answers your question including the greed involved by these *silver* breeders. It's similar to the puppy mills, even the showing type puppy mills. It's all about the money.

I have yet to see a silver in the part of the U.S. of A. I live in. I see lotsa Labradoodles b/c they're a *designer dog.* At least they admit they mixed them.

I loved how suddenly when someone tells about a Black Labrador bred to a Weim producing a silver whelp (which means that the Black Labrador had to be a carrier of the dilution gene too), folks jump in to say that the Black Labrador was also a mix when the OP never stated that to be the case. Sure is convenient that no one questioned that! That is what I love about wiscoy...bias is obvious.

I'm still waiting for the incontrovertible proof that the dilution gene in Labs in not innate to the breed. So far all I've heard is the same old unfounded accusations of mixing that has been regurgitated for decades without proof. I think I'll be waiting a long time.