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Re: Deposit question

and while I recognize it is within standard, I prefer that my dog not have white. I agree that many are shown and finish championships with white on their chest, but my preference is not to have dogs with white .. just like I prefer dogs with full dentition in my breeding program.

Does that make me shallow? I don't think so.. Does that mean I am a bad owner because I have certain preferences? I don't think so ..

I would give the deposit back no doubt about it. To me it doesn't matter who said what when or didn't .. It is about keeping the big picture in mind .. If you have nice dogs it will not be hard to sell this pup. I am sure there are other people on a waiting list who will not mind the white spot and in the meantime, I don't think OP is shallow or a horrible puppy person .. sounds to me more like an issue of wires being crossed during telecons and sadly that happens. Refund and both parties can move on ..

Re: Deposit question

where does it say it was a quarter size white spot?
Most spots I see in a certain chocolate line are the size of a pencil eraser or smaller at birth, but 8 weeks you could pull the white hairs out and hide it.
by adult coat time they are invisible and never an issue

Re: Deposit question

I don't take deposits and haven't for a few years now for exactly this reason. I would prefer if a puppy buyer changed their mind for what ever reason then we can both walk away from the arrangement. In fact I have just had this recently, Had a person interested in a puppy from me and they had been after one for quite some time, any way finally had a litter that I thought might suit them and offered them a puppy. Yes they wanted him were very keen and happy to wait for photo's etc etc etc. Well at 4 weeks they came and had a look at him, went home and e-mailed me to say he was too small ????? for what they were looking for. Well I have kept him and I will be showing him he has developed in to a very nice boy and at 10 weeks he was 12 kilos (26.5 pounds) so there is nothing small about him now !

Re: Deposit question

I have seen both black and chocolate shown recently. Did not think a thing about it. No one said oh look. They range from a few white hairs on the chest to the black that really had on a tuxedo. Who cares. Rather have that than the bad movement and limping to see alot. I agree, breeders know what it means and puppy family really don't.

Re: Deposit question

honestly
where does it say it was a quarter size white spot?




Read the original post.

I still say that if everything else is what you would want in a good puppy family, then so what if someone is a little finicky about looks???

I think it's great when my puppy families strut their beautiful dogs around town, proud to own them!!!! So, if they're the ones paying the money and doing the strutting, let them be particular!!

Re: Deposit question

Some people want a specific color or sex and I have no issue with that. But, when someone starts telling me they only want a specific shade of yellow I tell them to look elsewhere. Yellow is yellow regardless if it's a nice medium yellow or a pale light yellow. In my lines the yellows tend to be 2 or 3 shades darker in adult coat than they were in puppy coat. In this instance I believe the same mentality would apply. A black puppy is a black puppy regardless if it has a quarter size white spot on it's chest. It's not a mismarked puppy. Many times as the puppy grows the spot becomes completely unnoticeable. At the end of the day it's all just hair!

At this moment I have a litter of blacks and a couple have some white on them (thin line on the chest ranging from 2 inches to half an inch). Honestly never even considered mentioning it to pet buyers. They are quality black puppies, end of subject. If a potential pet owner is so picky over a few hairs than no I don't want them with one of my puppies. Puppies that are from health tested parents, raised in the home and well socialized should be the focus. I'd worry what would be wrong with the puppy next if a few white hairs is unacceptable.

Would I refund the deposit. Yes, when I sold the puppy to a qualified buyer. But, I don't take kindly to insults and bullying and if you act like a jerk about this than I'd likely just keep it.

Re: Deposit question

Don't like white either
and while I recognize it is within standard, I prefer that my dog not have white. I agree that many are shown and finish championships with white on their chest, but my preference is not to have dogs with white .. just like I prefer dogs with full dentition in my breeding program.

Does that make me shallow? I don't think so.. Does that mean I am a bad owner because I have certain preferences? I don't think so ..

I would give the deposit back no doubt about it. To me it doesn't matter who said what when or didn't .. It is about keeping the big picture in mind .. If you have nice dogs it will not be hard to sell this pup. I am sure there are other people on a waiting list who will not mind the white spot and in the meantime, I don't think OP is shallow or a horrible puppy person .. sounds to me more like an issue of wires being crossed during telecons and sadly that happens. Refund and both parties can move on ..


^ The best response IMO.

Re: Deposit question

Ask those sitting on several 14 week old pups in my area if they are easy to find homes for. Not in this economy.

Re: Deposit question

Consider donating them to a qualified service dog organization in yor area! It's not all about the money!

Re: Deposit question

Really? Been there done that.

Re: Deposit question

Janiz
Really? Been there done that.


Yes, Really! What's the problem with doing it again?

Re: Deposit question

My concern would be, if the breeder did not refund the deposit, the OP would go ahead and take the baby JUST to keep from losing the deposit. Then that pup would constantly be looked at as flawed, every little issue would cause it to be labeled and the quality of life would be the pits.
We always returned the deposit for what ever reason, gave folks 2 weeks to return, no questions asked, again with a full refund. We wanted our babies to be welcomed into the family, not reluctantly taken in.
I have never thought of a white spot as an issue either as a pet or even a puppy we were looking at keeping. I don't remember off hand if it was ever an issue with any buyer or not, if it had been their deposit would have been in the mail back quicker than a flash.

Re: Deposit question

Gregg
My concern would be, if the breeder did not refund the deposit, the OP would go ahead and take the baby JUST to keep from losing the deposit. Then that pup would constantly be looked at as flawed, every little issue would cause it to be labeled and the quality of life would be the pits.
We always returned the deposit for what ever reason, gave folks 2 weeks to return, no questions asked, again with a full refund. We wanted our babies to be welcomed into the family, not reluctantly taken in.
I have never thought of a white spot as an issue either as a pet or even a puppy we were looking at keeping. I don't remember off hand if it was ever an issue with any buyer or not, if it had been their deposit would have been in the mail back quicker than a flash.




Again, the assumption that the puppy buyer is some sort of a monster!!! That he would somehow mistreat the dog???

There was a miscommunication and the puppy buyer didn't want a Labrador Retriever with 2 colors, big deal. Had the breeder handled it better, she/he would already have someone on their list for next time because if the buyer was good enough to send a puppy home with this time then he should be qualified for next litter!!

Re: Deposit question

don't be so harsh...

Had the breeder handled it better, she/he would already have someone on their list for next time because if the buyer was good enough to send a puppy home with this time then he should be qualified for next litter!!


Sorry to burst your bubble, but many/most of us don't have enough litters to have a list for "next time". I maybe breed one litter a year - I don't keep people on a list for a whole year until the next one, so your assumption that we keep rolling lists of puppy buyers is a pretty poor one.

Re: Deposit question

Ditto

Re: Deposit question

Breeder
don't be so harsh...

Had the breeder handled it better, she/he would already have someone on their list for next time because if the buyer was good enough to send a puppy home with this time then he should be qualified for next litter!!


Sorry to burst your bubble, but many/most of us don't have enough litters to have a list for "next time". I maybe breed one litter a year - I don't keep people on a list for a whole year until the next one, so your assumption that we keep rolling lists of puppy buyers is a pretty poor one.



Huh? What does that have to do with the conversation???

Re: Deposit question

Not a miscommunication, the puppy buyer is looking for a perfect puppy as a white spot is certainly acceptable in the breed.
The question was.......
"My question is, do I have any recourse in getting the deposit back. The breeder says it is nonrefundable."
Now go back and read my response, I gave my opinion that I would give the deposit back and gave the reson for it. You might like the answer but.....

Re: Deposit question

And had the breeder discussed the spot sooner, the buyer either would have had the time to research and find that it was indeed within standard or perhaps the breeder could have rotated who she was giving puppies to (assuming temperaments matched up) and offered the spotted puppy to a different family.

I have people who are picky about the rescue dogs I place!!! They want a certain look (or they don't want a certain look!!) and if they are good families then I keep them in mind for next time.

Everyone is passing this spot thing off as if it is nothing. It is within standard but not desirable!! Just as a gay tail is within standard but not desirable.

Again, I say, if this buyer was a good home for a puppy then so what if he was particular about what he was cutting a large check for??? Now, certainly if this spot thing was just another red flag with him then let him go but then he shouldn't have been on the list for a puppy in the first place!!

Just my opinion.

Re: Deposit question

I have a 1 week old litter of pups 8 boys, the entire litter is spoken for already. two of the pups have small spots on the chest. I have not "warned" the families of this, because I am not sure who will get these pups. I dont expect to make a list up of mights have issues.

they get weekly photos and descriptions and I do make sure the white spot is showing in the photos.
I do tell families they have up to 6 weeks old to ask for a refund, after that it is my decision.
but honestly never had a family turn away a quality puppy due to a small white spot that wont be very visible by adult age.

you can argue the buyer is not a monster and he probably is not, but he listed 10 good qualities this line and puppy had but was willing to turn his nose up due to a few miscolored hairs.

Re: Deposit question

The difference with your litter and your communications with your families is that the white hairs are visible in all pictures. The OP has indicated that they were not. And a quarter size spot, to me, would seem larger than just a few hairs.

I don't care either way, I'm just trying to point out that just because someone was looking for a particular look, doesn't make them unqualified to have a puppy.

Perhaps he lives in an area, as I do, where it's hard to find a decent Lab and he was afraid people would question whether this was a purebred. We get that a lot and it's getting old!!!

Re: Deposit question

If you bring something up, in the spirit of full disclosure, there are individuals who will take this as something being wrong with the puppy. I've had puppies with white on their chests and it almost completely disappears once they are adults. A few years ago there was a female with a white spot who won winners bitch at the national specialty.

I encourage my families to make visits to see the puppies once the pups are 4 weeks old. This is a great time for them to ask questions and you to cover things. The OP said when they first contacted the breeder, the pups were 2 weeks old and couldn't have visits. Why didn't they go later when the pups were older? I sell to local families and when they aren't interested in at least one visit, it sends up a big red flag for me. JMHO

Re: Deposit question

Wow. There's probably a family out there who would pick that puppy just because of the white spot. Some pet owners think it's cute, and there's certainly nothing wrong with the white spot. I wouldn't want anyone taking my pup who didn't adore it, so I would hold the deposit until I sold it to another buyer, and then refund the deposit to the original person.

Re: Deposit question

I had this happen last year. there was one pup in the litter with a quarter size white circle. All families were notified pictures sent showing it. We also had discussions how this has nothing to do with temperament and is even in the show ring. When it came time for me to pick each puppy for the appropriate family, the people who I chose this puppy for declined. I was shocked. 8 weeks of discussing this and not one word from them. I refunded their deposit, would not hesitate on that. Turns out a former puppy family of mine wanted a 2nd and grabbed the opportunity to have this puppy. I don't think this puppy owner is a "monster" I think that's terrible and harsh but I also dont understand why a white spot is a big deal if the puppy offered the family everything else. If the breeder is reading this, please just refund the deposit. Is it really worth all this?

Re: Deposit question

Bdr
Wow. There's probably a family out there who would pick that puppy just because of the white spot. Some pet owners think it's cute, and there's certainly nothing wrong with the white spot. I wouldn't want anyone taking my pup who didn't adore it, so I would hold the deposit until I sold it to another buyer, and then refund the deposit to the original person.
I had a family request if possible a chocolate with a fairly good sized white line down the chest. Xmas photos at a year, he was decked out in Santa clothes and the white was the same. They came back to me 2 years later for a pup out of the same bitch's last litter. They were nice, normal puppy buyers that still send me photos yearly.

I wouldn't give the deposit back immediately unless they insist on the pup immediately. Otherwise, I would wait until I had a good home for the pup at the same price they were paying. If it were less, I would deduct it off their deposit.