Thanks to all who responded ... seems I hit on a sensitive topic and with a range of responses.

To clarify based on many questions and thoughts received follows ...

My only intent by posting, and at the recommendation of another breeder who has similar concerns, was to:

1. Generate responses regarding any and all medical and surgical procedural information that others may be familiar with that may be helpful, and to disseminate medical and surgical information that I am familiar with in the current circumstance with my 9 month old English lab. From my vantage, and with my now 4th generation (not related) of labs in the home, and having had previous dogs go through hip replacement and elbow arthroscopy and reconstruction, medical and surgical practices have rapidly advanced with familiarity only of benefit in my mind to those in need or considering same.

2. Only after careful information gathering, and information brought to my attention, with regard to a particular breeder; did I disseminate specifics -- for those that requested our 9 month old with the challenges comes from Liberty Creek Labradors of Indiana with sire "Liberty Creek Tugging the Line" and dam "Liberty Creek Independence" and with an origination line in "Liberty's Broad Ridge" "Brody" -- A variety of potential environmental and behavioral factors that could have contributed to the elbow challenges were ruled out, and careful triangulation of multiple litters with the same genetic line and with the same elbow anomalies have been documented, and with current litters continuing to be documented despite multiple interactions with this breeder by telephone and e-mail and also same among others who have used the line for breeding or have purchased a puppy out of the line. Hence the information dissemination on this account in an effort to curtail the potential for others to experience what we have.

I hope the information provided is helpful and constructive to those that were appreciative, and hope that those perceiving that I had "an axe to grind" or was simply engaging in "blame" absent understanding of all the potential variables that may have contributed to our 9 month old's elbow challenges understand that my post was not intended as such nor is the case.

Dr. Tom Sharpe

The challenges come from every dog out there. We are not suppose to be naming names and we do not appreciate it on here ! Handle it only with those concerned. Please.

I appreciate the "old as dirt" comment and clearly agree.

In response to "The breeder did remove the stud from her breeding program ...", then why is the stud "Tug" and the original line challenge stud "Brody" still advertised on the breeder's website with fresh and frozen semen for sale???

Tom Sharpe

Tom, get a grip. When you post something like this it only makes us wonder about you. Not the stud dog. If bred to enough females, things happen. Why are you being so hurtful to others ? Wasting life.

Not to mention that some folks don't live to up date their web page. So what if it's still there. You're a real piece of work Dr.

"Breeder", you are mistaken. I ABSOLUTELY wonder about the stud dog if he continues to produce the same type of problems over and over with different bitch lines.

There are many stud dogs that have been used A LOT and yes, they produce stuff, but it's all kinds of different stuff, not the same thing over and over so it's difficult to blame the dog when the issues are so varied. When it comes to the percentages of issues vs. the number of pups produced, a strong dog can stand proudly at stud.

It's a shame that people feel they need to broadcast the bad news on a public forum such as this, but unfortunately that's what it takes sometimes to get a breeder to face the facts. Too bad so many feel they have to bury the problem under the carpet, rather than just be honest. Hey, stuff happens despite our best efforts to avoid problems. Just be honest, learn from the experience, and move on. But, BE HONEST.

Gregg,

Sure. The facts are:

1.) “Breeder” said, “When you post something like this it only makes us wonder about you. Not the stud dog.”

2.) To which I replied, "‘Breeder’, you are mistaken. I ABSOLUTELY wonder about the stud dog if he continues to produce the same type of problems over and over with different bitch lines.”

It is a fact that when I hear about a dog that produces the same problem with multiple bitch lines, I wonder about him and his propensity to produce the same problem regardless of the bitch he is bred to. I did not state that "it is fact the the stud dog is solely responsible for the issue", I simply said "I wonder about him". That's a fact. I wonder about him...

With all due respect, I think you misunderstood my reply. Your response seems to imply I was speaking to a specific dog. I was not. I simply said that when I hear about a dog (meaning, any dog) that produces the same problem with multiple bitch lines I wonder about him.

In my case, when I call the owner of a dog I'm going to breed to, my list of questions includes "Who else has bred to him?" I call those breeders and ask about their litter. I also ask them if they know of other breeders that used the dog, and I call those folks too. I don't make decisions based on rumor, I make phone calls and discuss. Lots of work, but I'm not a big time breeder and I have the time to invest in my one litter a year, if that. (I breed a litter when I want a puppy for myself.)

Because I want to move forward with my own lines, I want to be sure my eyes and ears are wide open for any potential issues I might be bringing into my breeding program. I also cross my fingers and hope that folks are honest with me. I've been lucky so far...