I just wanted to start a discussion on the different methods to time when is right to breed your bitch. When I first got started in dogs the person I worked for used and swore by Camelot farms Premate test. I have not heard of many people using this method lately as most seem to prefer the lab test through Antech and Idexx. Just curious if anyone is still using the Premate test or if it has kinda fallen by the way side in labradors. Just looking for others opinions as to why they choose one over the other. Thanks

Before last year, I hadn't bred a litter on my own in almost 6 years. Before that, I would always use Camelot whether it was a natural breeding, side by side AI or fresh chilled. My last litter I just bred was a side by side AI (sire an old guy from my old lines) and I used Camelot again. I bred a little early since I didn't know if this old guy would perform and I wanted to make sure things would work. The first few days the collections were small (4-5 ccs). On the day that Camelot said was the date to mate, the old guy gave me 12ccs. LOL 61 days later, my bitch had 6 puppies (normal size litter for her).

I've used Camelot for years. The hardest part is collecting blood. If you can do that, the rest is a piece of cake. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.

Been using Camelot Farms test for 15 years on my own girls and visiting girls. It is pretty much right on with timing.
I draw the blood myself, have my own centrifuge and run the test at home. Like anything else once you learn how to do it is it s piece of cake and it can save you a lot of $$$.

For us, we don't breed alot. I don't want to mess with the equipment at home or take blood. I have a vet with a reasonable price and if I draw blood with them in the AM, I have results in the PM. I will stick to that until I have a handful of bitches that I am breeding.

With the Premate test you are matching colors, similiar to a ph test for a swimming pool, so could be a bit open to interpretation. With a lab test you are given an exact number so know exactly what the progesterone level is. Why most use lab testing nowadays especially if you are going to be shipping where the timing is critical. My repro vet who is also a breeder used to use premate back in the day but has since gone to lab testing for the accuracy.

if you are experienced enough with premate the color reading is a breeze and easy to see exactly when ovulation is occurring.
I find it just as reliable as numbers, with less time and money involved.

Ryan, it seems breeders with lots & lots of girls having litters use Premate. Otherwise it's really cost prohibitive I would think from what I've read about it. The breeder also needs to know how to draw blood or learn how to. With 3 bitches & a litter or 2 a year, I'll stick with lab testing and continue to crank & complain about the high cost of progesterone testing.

We started out using the Vet, cost a lot. Then we started using the Target tests and liked them really well. We have a friend that is a Vet and he called in a PRN order to the lab in town that all the vets send blood to. So with the Target we knew when it was time to start checking for a #. This last time we had 1 target test left and had ordered Premate to try. We used the Premate a few times and then on day 17 we did both and they both said ready to breed. So we drew fresh blood, hubby took it to the lab next morning and had a # by 3. Called the stud owner and she had was ready on her end. Bred her 2 days past 7 something and she is half way along and she is going going to have a big litter. She had 10 last time. So the tests can save you money and time and both seem to be accurate.

Dear Breeder 1,

Perhaps you didn't read my post above regarding how little I breed. I only have one breedable girl and she is now being retired. So please don't lump me into your assumption of who uses this test.

As for your other assumptions of the test being cost prohibitive for those who only breed one or two litters a year, let me break it down for you. The Vets around here charge about $140 per progesterone test. With having to do 3-4 tests per heat, that adds up pretty fast.

Camelot's kit is about $125. It will do a minimum of 10 tests. That's roughly $12.50/test. How is this more expensive? I usually just use one kit per breeding since I just had the girl. The kit does last for about a year so if you do have two litters in a year you can usually do two girls on one kit.

Granted you may have to learn how to draw blood. However, if you have a good relationship with your vet, many will do it for you and spin it for a nominal fee.

Dianne you are assuming as well, progesterone tests in our area are $75.00 and if someone consistently does 3-4 tests, either the breeder is getting taken to the cleaners and/or they are a wuss and afraid to take control of the situation. Normally only two tests should be required, sometimes one, just as often three.
I guess to each their own but considering we only had two litters a year we felt that doing progesterone testing was the way to go. We used to do Pre-mate but felt the actual blood test was more accurate and while some more expensive, well worth it. "IF" we had to use an outside lab to get results, I might have thought differently but with a "real" repro specialist who does their own testing made it a no brainer in our mind.

I think that the Vets are gouging us in a big way. They know we need the testing and can charge what they want. There is no way it costs them that much to run one test. If we can draw the blood and take it to the lab and pay $25 I know there is gouging going on big time. The best thing to do is learn to draw blood, it is scary at first but with a little help from a friend pretty easy. Get a Centrifuge and spin it down. Do an at home day 7or 10 and if close saying time to breed, draw the blood, take it to the vet for an order to send it to the lab. Or better yet if you have a Vet friend have them call in an order and by-pass the Vet altogether. Once we took a stool sample to the vet we have been using for years, spent lots of money in there. They were going to charge us an office visit to look at the poop. We said thanks but no thanks and haven't been back.. They can charge incredible prices at there whim and they change them all the time so we can pay for their add on to the building they have. They will take you to the bank for sure

And yet, God help the "money gouging" vet if they aren't available at ALL hours of the day, night and weekend the SECOND you badmouthers decide that you need a C-section. Obviously none of you run a business, or understand the concepts of overhead, employee salaries, insurance or other business costs. And if you DO run a business, I am guessing that you run NON-PROFIT businesses? "how DARE those horrible vets try to make a profit?"

Seriously, you anti-vet people make me sick.

My old vet had taught me how to draw my own blood. I used to draw the blood, spin it down and have the vet send it out. It still cost me $90 per sample. I now use Bet Labs in KY. I get the sample, ship it myself and i have the results by noon the next day. The cost of shipping is about $50. and the test fee is about $22. My vet is happy, its one less thing they have to do for me and i am happy with the lower price. I draw my sample first thing in the morning, get it ready and drop it off at Fed Ex on my way to work.
Idexx charges the vet approx $80 for the test so the vet has to make something on it. Its the cost of doing business.

having a bad day?
get you a glass of wine and chill down.

we run multiple business, so I understand that there is a difference between making money and robbing people blind. But the good thing is we have choices, just like they do.