I am boarding a 7 month old which is third generation from one of my lines. I was shocked when she jumped out of her vehicle - she's absolutely gorgeous aside from a little straight in the back. I have her sister and had 4 other littermates for training purposes until 6 months. None had a fraction of the bone this boarded girl does. At 8 weeks this girl and my keeper were the same weight, my keeper had a better head, coat, and angles. Well now my keeper's angles are still better but this boarding girl has a much better head, fantastic coat, and tons of bone.

The pet family is still feeding three times a day, whereas I went to two times a day by 10 weeks. Could it be her feeding style is better? Is there a chance my girl will still fill out like her sister? Why is sister so much nicer than the other 5 when they were so much alike at 8 weeks? I'm kind of kicking myself, this pup was my 7 year old's favorite too :(

Fed same food ? Same amount ? Both babies spend equal time outside ? Puppies kept in the house usually grow up with less, bone, coat, and substance .

I have 2) 6 month old puppies that I bred and they each are eating twice a day, but are getting 2 cups per meal so 4 cups each a day. They are chunky but not fat.
Julia

Well, if you want bone, many breeders say you have to feed for bone - not fat puppies, but certainly more than you're feeding! Sorry to say you probably will never get the bone this puppy has at this point. Chalk it up to live and learn. A lean puppy is what the vets want and I don't like a rolly-polly fat puppy, but honestly I figure if we're trying to keep a puppy lean so that it won't "get" hip dysplasia, aren't we doing a disservice to the breed if we are simply masking a genetic condition that might surface if the dog wasn't being kept unusually skinny? I don't want any of my dogs getting HD (and most of mine recently have been excellents), but if it's there, I'd rather know before I breed it and perpetuate the genes if all I'm doing is covering up a potential problem. It's fine for a pet, but for breeding animals we want to know what's there!

ps - my young girls (under 2 or so) usually eat about 4 cups a day and boys anywhere from 5-6 depending on how they look/what they need.

It is always a crapshoot with puppies, if we all had crystal balls we would keep the right puppy but there will always be the one that got away. With more experience you get to know your puppies better and how they grow and what to look for and will be able to make better choices when it comes to picking the keepers. That said, feeding can also make a difference.

You just answered your own question.
You did not feed enough. Period.
Next time you will know.
As for your pup, no, you will never be able to turn back time and make up for it.
She won't have the bone she would have, had you fed her more.

I have a friend with two of my bitches. She feeds for a lean dog. They do not have the bone and are very petite. Beautiful dogs, but considering they were the best girls of the litter, they cannot be shown in AKC and be competetive. I kept males and fed more on the liberal side, and while I know boys and girls are different, they appear like they are from different litters. Yet the 2 girl (from different litters) appear to be siblings.

If you focus on performance or even UKC, you'll be fine.

Thank you all so much for your honest answers. I've learned the hard way, but really appreciate you telling me the truth.

I do like to do performance, so that's my girl's future. However, I like to do both AKC breed AND performance, should have known.

I use to feed more to pups but then had a set of Fair hips, so cut back :(

This is interesting...I have 3 seven month old littermates, 2 bitches, 1 dog. the male is bigger than his mom already, tons of bone, lots of substance, I keep them slim, you can feel ribs, under a layer of some fat. I feed them just 2 cups a day of adult food, the male gets about 2 -3 cups a day, I monitor the wt, and adjust food. this is a lot less food than what most of you feed, yet I have bloomy pups. they get out to run/play every day. ( they have gorgeous coats too )

Fair is passing, so while not ideal, it shouldn't have scared you into changing too much about how you raise your pups. I would feed enough as a pup, as most of us, even when "feeding for bone" aren't going to have severly overweight pups anyway. And then later on, you can keep your dog lean as it gets to that 2 year old mark. My dogs are not the large overdone ones, but they do keep the bone, even the mom of the petite bitches I mentioned. I tend to keep them a tad heavier up to a year...we are usually on around 4 cups by 4-6 months and I end up leaving them on that. So they are fed well young, and lean up as the age and get more muscular and active.

One thing to keep in mind, just because someone else is feeding 4 cups of food and you are only feeding 2.5, different foods have different amounts that they suggest in the guidelines. If I fed 4 cups a day to my 6 mo. old instead of the 2.5 she gets, she would be obese. She isn't lean, but she isn't obsese either, she is a good happy medium. And her bone is coming along just fine in comparison to her sister and brother, who are also eating the same brand, though different formulas, of food. The food I feed is very highly digestable, so you don't need to feed a lot as others.

My pups leave here eating about 3/4 to a cup at 8 weeks. And more added as they grow. I can not imagine a pup under a year not eating at least, 4 cups a day. My dogs are not fat. 30Pro/18fat dog food. I have heard you will never recover the nice bone.

Now why on earth would this be? I could see having more coat if a dog spends more time outside in cold weather, but the rest???

I always feed female pups 3 - 3.5 cups per day at 7 mos of age. Of course, my pups "mature" later, as I think they should. When given the choice between health and the potential for more bone to satisfy a show ring fad, it is a no-brainer for us.

Of course, I guess it all depends what food you are feeding, how much exercise it is getting, and genetics. So it is hard to compare. But, we don't like fat pups or fat dogs. And people will argue to they are blue in the face that their obese pups and dogs are all bone, muscle, and coat. So again, these posts are almost worthless.

When choosing pups, among all the other things to consider, choose bone structure over substance. Then feed it to be healthy first and foremost. If it turns out to be a winner, that is icing on the cake.

Just speculating here but maybe the ones you've seen inside are pets that were spayed/neutered young. This will change the way they develop (bones,coat,etc) due to hormonal changes.

Because I am involved in performance as well as breed, I have placed a number of my show bred puppies in performance homes. I make sure they are well built to do the job. When these puppies are raised by performance people, they are kept lean from the start. Do they end up with the same bone as the show prospects raised in my home? Absolutely not.

Do you place the same kind of dog in a performance home as a conformation home? Really, really? or more likely, do you select differently for conformation and performance and they grow up looking different?

Ummm, Since they are all my breeding, which is conformation oriented, that's the style of dog they are getting. Just want to let you know I do not sell my performance friends the leftovers. I make sure they get a well built dog that will hold up. They grow up looking much different because of how lean they are kept growing up.

So each and every one of your puppies is conformation champion material? or perhaps there is a range in every litter? And perhaps you choose the ones with the most bone for conformation? And perhaps you choose the leanest puppies for agility?

Surely you are not saving that you would send a truly conformation type puppy to an agility home that had no interest in conformation showing. Surely you are not saying that you would place a running agility type dog in a conformation home and tell them to fatten him up? Come on now.

I think what "Breeder" is saying is that his/her puppies are pretty consistant from a bone perspective. Now the subtle nuances that we look for in show dogs (shoulder lay, rear angle, topline, etc) might be different between the pups. My litters are generally very consistant in bone and size.

That is what we are talking about here...bone. I kept the smallest puppy as my pick because of her balance and other things I was looking for in a show dog. She has lovely bone and size and she certainly is not lacking in those areas. Her littersister who was much bigger and bloomier as a puppy ended up smaller than my girl with less bone.

I was not rationalizing anything. I was telling you what I was inferring from the Breeder's statements that the puppies were consistant. I never said to fatten a puppy up for bone. I don't fatten my puppies up...but I also don't restrict their diets. I have seen puppies that were fed so little as recommended by a vet that it actually stunted their growth. Think about human children who do not recieve proper nutrition or are malnourished. They are smaller and lighter than other healthy children.

I am saying that nutrtion has a large role in allowing dogs to develope to their genetic potential...just as overnutrition can cause issues. Read into it what you will...my puppies don't roll around the ring. They are fit and are swam several times a week for excercise.

I'm not talking about malnourishment. I've yet to see a malnourished dog show up in the conformation ring in 20 years. Nutrition plays a role, but a small one, and not enough to justify all the fat puppies I see in the conformation ring. Face it. The biggest problem is that people have is figuring out which puppy will have the most bone when all is said and done. They make some bad choices. And fat won't fix those choices.

Of course structure counts in a performance home. But structure is not bone. For example, good agility dogs need good structure, but they also need to be fleet of foot.

No, structure is not bone, but at 8 weeks if the pups are similar in bone, there is no way to know for sure how they will turn out as adults. Regardless of whether one does performance or conformation, good structure is necessary. Dogs without it do not belong in performance homes. I think genetics play a big role. I have two littermates who are fed the same and live in the same conditions but are different in bone-both have "enough" but one has heavier bone than the other.

This breed should have solid bone - heavy bone is not in the standard and while people may like it, IMO a dog with good solid bone, a correct coat and temperament and structure built to work is far more desirable than a dog with "tree trunk" legs or "tons of bone" (this makes me picture a very cloddy sort of dog, and the ones I have seen with that much bone typically are very cloddy).

I choose to feed my puppies so that they look chunky. I probably feed more than the breeders who are looking to do agility, maybe a little less than those that want very substantial dogs.

I think they are born with the genes that will determine what they will look like, as far as bone and substance and coat. Feeding them up allows for this to happen to the greatest degree. I can take 4 puppies from the same litter and feed them all the same, but there will be a difference in how they grow - regardless. I don't think you can feed a puppy to change it to a great degree, they are born to be that type, but feeding up can make the difference between a fabulous dog and a nice dog, some of the time.

That's why I like to keep a couple from each litter - to see how they grow.

It is also important that they play at will most of the time, to develop the muscle early on.