Labrador Retriever Forum
I am wondering the timing when you breed naturally vs. when you do AI.
My girl was 4.6 ng yesterday morning and she bred naturally with the stud later that day with 20 min tie.
I know if I were to do AI I would have had to wait until today or tomorrow to do the first breeding.
Do dogs normally breed earlier when they are breeding naturally vs. if we were to do AI?
Just wondering if the stud dogs like to wait after the bitch has ovulated or if they like to do it at the time of ovulation or even a little earlier than that?
And if breeding naturally would it not be late to breed 2 or 3 days after ovulation as it takes semen longer to reach the eggs?
My girl was 4.6 ng yesterday morning and she bred naturally with the stud later that day with 20 min tie.
I know if I were to do AI I would have had to wait until today or tomorrow to do the first breeding.
Do dogs normally breed earlier when they are breeding naturally vs. if we were to do AI?
Just wondering if the stud dogs like to wait after the bitch has ovulated or if they like to do it at the time of ovulation or even a little earlier than that?
And if breeding naturally would it not be late to breed 2 or 3 days after ovulation as it takes semen longer to reach the eggs?
It does not matter breeding is 2-3 days after the bitch hits 5.0 the bitch might allow the stud to tie but that does not mean the eggs are ready. Sperm will live about 3 days from natural tie, 2 plus days with AI. Frozen would be different.
Natural breedings or fresh AI's will result in the sperm living much longer then with chilled. Assuming a perfect world (which I don't), you would do any type of breeding 2 or 3 days after ovulation and you would be fine with just that 1 breeding. Probably better to do fresh 2 days after ovulation and chilled 3 days after.
BUT, bitches don't all ovulate when the test says they should. Eggs don't always "mature" and stay viable like the textbooks say they should. Stud dogs and their managers, vets, and airlines can't always cooperate as hoped for. Weekends and holidays seem to always get in the way.
For example, most bitches ovulate between 5 and 7, but some wait until 10. Some bitches ovulate right at 5, the eggs get ready quickly but then only stay viable for a day. Another example is if you plan just one chilled shipment for 3 days after estimated ovulation and its gets lost by the airlines. By the time you can get a replacement shipment, the bitch has gone out.
Therefore, I always plan on 2 breedings whichever way I breed. If the first one goes well with natural or fresh semen AI, I may not do a second. But the second was scheduled just in case. Again, fresh semen lasts longer than chilled. So, I usually want to do the second breeding when using chilled, even if the first goes OK.
I do natural breedings, or fresh AI, 1 or 2 days after ovulation and again 2 days later. I do chilled 2 or 3 days after ovulation and then again, 1 or 2 days later.
My girl was 4.6 ng yesterday morning and she bred naturally with the stud later that day with 20 min tie.
I know if I were to do AI I would have had to wait until today or tomorrow to do the first breeding.
Do dogs normally breed earlier when they are breeding naturally vs. if we were to do AI?
Just wondering if the stud dogs like to wait after the bitch has ovulated or if they like to do it at the time of ovulation or even a little earlier than that?
And if breeding naturally would it not be late to breed 2 or 3 days after ovulation as it takes semen longer to reach the eggs?
It is ok that the male bred early. They usually breed natural before ovulation and past fertile period. IT doesn't mean that your bitch has been fertilized. You still need to breed her again. If the male is available, I normally do natural breeding or side by side breeding every other day until the bitch is not receptive anymore.
Thanks for the info! I have the male with me for several days while I breed... so I will be doing another breeding tomorrow and maybe last one on Saturday... she should be well covered!
It does not matter breeding is 2-3 days after the bitch hits 5.0 the bitch might allow the stud to tie but that does not mean the eggs are ready. Sperm will live about 3 days from natural tie, 2 plus days with AI. Frozen would be different.
I have to respectfully disagree with this comment. Healthy, fresh semen lives MUCH longer than 3 days. On the rare occassion when I breed my own bitches to my own dogs, I always do side by side AIs on LH surge day and ovulation day. I've heard several old timers comment on breeding early for girls and later for boys. On average, breeding on LH day and ovulation day has given me 75% female. My chilled litters bred on 2 and 4 days after ovulation have yielded more males.
Also, I know a bitch who was with a handler for the beginning of her heat cycle. When she came home, the owner tested her progesterone for an upcoming breeding and she was a 1.9. She did all testing and bred to a nice dominant black boy 2 and 4 days after ovulation. When her litter of 9 was born it was all yellow. Turns out, the handler had a yellow lab too, and dna tests proved that the yellow dog sired the entire 9 puppy litter. She had to have been under a 1.9 at the time of breeding.
As I didn't know at the time how to calculate numbers from MOL to ng/ml I just believed my vets assistant when she told me that she was 17.4 MOL which was about 4.6 ng... but in fact she was 5.47 ng/ml on Wed morning and NOT 4.6.
They bred later that day naturally with a tie and than I let them meet 24 hrs later with another natural breeding. Last 2 breedings where 2 and 3 days after she hit 5.47...
The conversion factor for mmol to ng is 3.18 - therefor divide your mmol result by 3.18 to get the reading in ng.
Thank you! I should have just said the mmol # at first... but thought my vet's assistance was right... but obviously she wasn't.
She was 17.4 mmol... which is 5.47 ng/ml :)
