What is the preferred heart check - auscultation or the Doppler/Echo? What is the reason you choose to do the test that you do?

Thanks in advance

http://www.facebook.com/groups/TVDinLabs/ lengthy discussion on that here

The only method I use is Echo doppler. A matter of fact; I won't do a breeding if both parents don't have them.

I have never done auscultation alone ever since echo dopplers are available at clinic prices. Prices run $90 to $175 typically. Echo dopplers are done along with auscultation for those costs, not a bad deal at all.

Auscultation alone can miss 20% or more murmurs. Ask the majority of veterinary cardiologists. I will not use an internist or general practitioner, only a cardiologist.

The majority of decent stud dogs seem to have echo dopplers today. More bitches seem to have them also then they use to 2-3 years ago. I'm still shocked when doing pedigree research how many Labs don't have an echo done at times. Yes; I contact the breeder to ask.

I hope the trend continues of more echos and we start to see multi-generational echo dopplers in lines. Without a genetic test it's the best testing we can do.

The cardiologist I take my dogs to told me, auscultation is fine for most dogs, unless there is a known family history of cardiac problems, or a popular stud dog, who will sire many, many litters; in those cases he advised an echo. This is what the cardiologist told me.

The two cardiologists that I use both agree that an auscultation is not sufficient to detect TVD due to the location of the valve and the dense body mass of the Ladrador. Both also agree that the numbers mentioned above are correct. Even in their practices, 5 to 20 % of the dogs they exam initially by auscultation who appear normal, do not pass their echocardiograms. They urge anyone who considers breeding their dogs to have both parents echoed.

why waste your money on a cheap test when you can waste your money on an expensive test

It's not a laughing matter. The best we can do to help ensure health in our puppies is to utilize screening tools. One of them being an echo color doppler. You want to 'really' know the status of the heart that is what you do.

a fool and his money are soon parted

gee i didn't know you could breed echos.

The problem is that a dog can have TVD and still pass auscultation. My very nice male, with no family history, passed auscultation. In his third litter, he produced a puppy with severe TVD. Echo revealed my stud dog had TVD where a very defective valve managed to close completely.

Yes, you save money, but you will not be certain that a dog clearing auscultation is clear of TVD.

Is hahaha a lunatic? TVD is a serious health issue and nothing to laugh about.

Hahahaha is not a lunatic, sarcastic perhaps, but entitled to their own opinion. I don't think there are that many dogs dropping dead- if there were, we would be hearing all about it, and we're just not. There is not agreement among cardiologists about this, and if they cant come to a consensus, why on earth do you expect folks on this forum to? Do what you are comfortable with and move on. If the stud dog you like doesn't have an echo clearance & that is important to you, pick another dog-- we don't have a rare breed and there are plenty to choose from.

I think hahaha is really Joe Biden.

Lub Dub, you missed my point. The dog had absolutely NO murmur, still doesn't. His long, abnormally shaped valve leaves close completely.

Here's my point again - TVD can be silent!!!!

Well then THATS not TVD!
TVD is LEAKAGE of the Triscuspid valve.
There are other heart issues besides TVD, just like there are other form of PRA besides the ONE we can test for.

the valve is functioning effectively and normally for that dog. get a second opinion.

No, TVD is DYSPLASIA - or abnormality - of the tricuspid valve. His valve and heart shape are abnormal as per TVD. but the long leaves of the valve actually do close. TVD usually involves leakage, but doesn't have to.

He's been seen by multiple vets and a very good cardiologist. Trust me, he has tricuspid valve DYSPLASIA and has produced severe TVD. Goes without saying he and his close relatives are neutered and in good pet homes.

Mild TVD can be missed by auscultation and a mild can live basically a normal life and a owner would never know. The Cardiologist I use always said "Auscultation is fine, not to do an echo unless something was suspected or heard"....that was until a puppy I know off was taken in for a echo who had severe TVD, this was from generations of both sides being cleared by the same Cardiologist with auscultations.

No one wants to produce TVD, but no one wants to hear that their dog has or produced it either. We are living fear knowing that after generations we may have to stop breeding a line we have, even if it is a mild case found by echo. We really need to work together to stop this horrible disease...Support TVD research at Penn State! If they can find the marker for PRA, EIC and CM maybe they can find it for TVD and it could be a simple DNA test to find out. I wish Cardiologist would help us out a little more bringing the cost down for echo's, maybe then more would do them.

I like the image of a brick wall. brick walls can weather the storm of testing fads and bullies.

I saw a long term study that showed that OFA x-rays has not reduced the occurrence of hip dysplasia.