4 year old female with ACL
searched this forum for options of time care instead of surgery.
couldn't seem to find anything.
would like opinions from those that have been successful

Here's a group to join/check out that might be helpful:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodogs/

I had a sheltie in my 4-H club with ACL. Family rested her 3 months, she seemed better, they let her do 4-H for a few weeks, had trouble again (?Retorn?) They rested 6 months on crate rest with short leash walks between (yes, a long time) But the dog is fine now, she even runs agility. They gave the Glucosamine, Chondroitin, WITH MSM humangrade supplements. That was 2 years ago and all is still well. All the best!

Have a friend with a 120lb active Bernese Mtn Dog. She opted to have a brace made instead of the surgery and the dog did great. She obtained Drafting titles with her brace and everything. She was happy with her decision to not do conventional surgery.

If you have a holistic vet near you, look into prolotherapy. I used this many years ago for a neck injury and it worked beautifully (she went on to do CDX, JH, and agility), and this same vet was telling me of his successes on partial cruciate tears and other tears.

Another gal who is on a puppy list w/ me has a girl w/ a shoulder tear and she's now doing some other kind of shock therapy (???). She was told it will have the same effect as the prolotherapy, basically healing thru promoting scar tissue development.

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-practice-news-columns/complementary-medicine/questioning-canine-cruciate-surgery.aspx?cm_mmc=10177433

I just read this on FB. Hope it helps.
BTW, I've had two Labs with partial tears over the years and both healed without conventional surgery. It's been well over five years for each of them and there have been no further problems.

anyone used Adequan injectable with a dog with ACL?
20 years ago we had mare that tore and the adequan worked great.

There is a conservative management group on yahoogroups, great info

my 12 year old lab blew a cruciate in January, we did rest and rimadyl and she is great, back to competing in obedience and rally

my 9 year old blew her 2nd cruciate and we did surgery and she is also back
conservative management for my "she's 9?? i thought she was a puppy" not the right answer..

my older dog who heels like a glacier, rest for a long time? no worries, perfect answer... really depends on the dog..

Swim, Swim, Swim and then more swimming. Swimming is a "no impact" exercise.
I have personally rehabbed a few of my dogs doing this. They weren't caged except at night but they also were not allowed to play with the other dogs.
I kept them confined to one room in my house. Pain meds, you can go both ways.
When it comes to helping keep a dog quiet I tease "pain is your friend".
Some pain meds do such a great job of relieving pain that some dogs will try to resume their normal activity and unfortunately they can cause a complete rupture as opposed to a partial tear. Minimum rehab time is 3 months and you can go as long as 6 months. I don't have a pond so I drive to a boat launching site at a local reservoir. I have done this during the winter w/out a problem. Don't let your dog jump into the water, a ramp is best. Best of luck on recovery.

Is it possible to heal a complete tear conservatively?

A full tear is almost impossible to fully recover successfully doing conservative therapy. Your dog could have lifelong lameness and pain. Make sure you're using your Glucosamine HCL (not sulfate) forever. Also never allow your dog to gain too much weight. The slimmer the better, less stress on the joints.

I know someone who did this with their agility lab. It takes a LOT of patience, holding to a strict rehabilitation program and time (I might have the routine this person followed). The dog did return to competition. I also did it with my old girl (9 years old), but I was so strict with the program and she did well. The injury ended her agility competition days, but not running through the woods. She did well at self regulating her activity. Arthritis settles in quickly as they get older. What is left alone, nature will heal in its own way to secure the joint. Any canine physical therapist or orthopedic vet can talk with they might have experience in this area?

You want to make sure that the Meniscus is not torn also! My 2 year old tore the ACL right after she was bred (she is very active) so I had to wait to do anything except for resting her. Rest did not help at all and we found out when we did the surgery later that she tore the meniscus as well. She was in a lot of pain. 2 years later, she is doing great.

Good luck with the course of action that is best for your dog.

Unfortunately, Ortho RVT has provided some information that is a little outdated.

First, pain is virtually NEVER a "good thing." The AMA (people doctors) now includes pain as the fifth vital sign -- with the goal of analgesia to provide COMPLETE absence of pain whenever possible. The arguement that pain forces dogs to limit their activities is outdated -- the documented negative effects of pain on healing more than counteract any advantage this may bring. Decreaing pain decreases the physiological stress response, which decreases the amount of cortisol in the body. Cortisol inhibits tissue repair.

In addition, the presence of pain in one area of the body produces compensatory strain on other joints/muscles/soft tissue as the dog attempts to protect the injured area.

Third, it is the OWNER's responsibility to limit activity, not the dog's. That would be similar to saying that we should not give a toddler with a broken leg any pain meds, so they will stay off the leg.....

Re: swimming -- that is a fabulous exercise for many things. It can be used to maintain cardiovascular fitness while rehabbing from a CCL tear. Unfortunately, it is contraindicated in early CCL rehab, because the "jerky" action of the dog's hind legs while swimming can actually damage the inflammed joint further.

It certainly IS possible to rehab a CCL trear conservatively -- the surgery vs conservative treatment decision should be largely based on the dog's "job." Regardless of treatment chosen, arthritis WILL develop quickly in the joint. If the dog is intended for a performance career, I would lean more towards TPLO or TTL surgery. If not, conservative therapy can be tried. Prognosis decpends on the extent of injury, individual conformation, quality of rehabilitation program, and plain, dumb luck.

For those wondering about my credentials, I am a DVM who is a Certified Veterinary Pain Practitioner, Certified Canine Rehabilitation Practioner, and Certified Veterinary Medical Acupuncturist.

thank you all for the info...I am still researching options and trying to figure out ideas.

for the record, I have called over 5 ortho vets with in 200 mile radius of me.
the cheapest estimate for any surgery is $3000 with the high end being $5000.
Seriously? it is no wonder families dont get this fixed immediately.

I would greatly appreciate any recommendations to a good reasonable priced vet in Fl or GA. I would have to save up for months to do the surgery here. this way if the conventional treatment does not work I have somewhere lined up to take her.

What about the vet school at Georgia or Florida or Auburn? They may have a clinical trial that your dog can join and part of the costs are reduced as a result.

Over twenty years ago, one of my labs was in a chemotherapy trial for bone cancer and Tennessee and another ended up having a hip replaced there; both procedures were discounted considerably.

My vet does surgery for $750.00 that includes all meds and hospitalization.
He is extremely skilled.... But he is in MI... Just outside of GR.
Email me if you are interested....