Who decided that Dudleys can't be shown?

The standard reads:

and



NBP labs do not lack any pigment, they have the chocolate pigment due to the recessive gene. Their noses are brown just like a chocolate has a brown nose.

So for the sake of discussion, why aren't we showing our nice NBP labs in the ring??

NBP does not mean no pigment, it means no black pigment. Dudleys can’t be shown because its specifically written into the standard – and has been for as long as I’ve been in Labs. The people who decided were the people who wrote the standard years and years ago.

There is another section of the standard, under Head, that includes the following wording:

“Nose – …The nose should be black on black or yellow dogs, and brown on chocolates. Nose color fading to a lighter shade is not a fault. A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment is a disqualification.”

So, the answer to your question about why Dudleys can’t be shown is… well, actually they can and then they will be DQd. Technically, you can bring anything into the ring but be prepared. And please don't tattoo the color in.

The answer to “why aren’t we showing our nice NBP labs in the ring” is because the wording quoted above regarding noses is pretty clear, and you would (or should) be penalized accordingly. You can bring the dog into the ring, but think about it – as a judge, why would I reward your NBP in any way when it is likely that I can find a quality exhibit with correct pigment? I’m pretty sure most if not all judges would look at it the same way. Also – and I’m really not trying to be tacky here – I don’t know of a breeder who would keep an NBP or sell one as a show prospect. It would be quite counterproductive.

Thanks for pointing out the NOSE part of the standard. I forgot about that part.

Actually, you are not reading that correctly. There is NO DQ for a brown-nosed yellow dog, it's just not the preferred coloring. That is the interpretation anyone who can read will reach, PLUS the LRC told me the same thing when I called a few years ago to ask that very question.

Here's the AKC standard for nose again - no where does it say a yellow with a brown nose will be a DQ - only a "thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in ANY pigment"...

“Nose – …The nose should be black on black or yellow dogs, and brown on chocolates. Nose color fading to a lighter shade is not a fault. A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment is a disqualification.”

As far as keeping a yellow with chocolate pigment - if you don't want to produce it again, but your pick bitch with everything else going for her has chocolate pigment, you'd be stupid to put her in a pet home when you can easily breed around the issue. There are MANY issues that can preclude a dog from being shown but not from being a good breeding prospect - throwing away the pick of the litter, if you have room to keep a non-shown bitch, is very short-sighted indeed.

You are not reading my reply. Nowhere did I say a brown nosed yellow dog was a DQ. Nowhere.

Years ago my yellow with black pigment got beat by a yellow with liver brown nose and eye rims at an all breed show. Did I grumble? Not on your life! It was a lovely bitch and I didn't begrudge it at all. It happens naturally in our breed and the nose was NOT "pink without pigment". While perhaps a fault, I can think of far more serious faults.

Umm, yes you did:

"So, the answer to your question about why Dudleys can’t be shown is… well, actually they can and then they will be DQd. Technically, you can bring anything into the ring but be prepared. And please don't tattoo the color"

You can tattoo the nose but you can't tattoo the eyes. Dudleys have light green hazel eyes.

A Dudley is not a brown nosed yellow dog. A Dudley is a pink nose. A Dudley will be DQ'd. A brown nosed yellow dog will merely be overlooked for better specimens. So tell me again where I said a brown nosed yellow dog will be DQ'd? On second thought, don't... unless you are willing to shed your cloak of anonymity as I have. This discussion is getting old fast.

Genetically a liver nosed yellow is exactly the same as one with a pink nose. A Dudley nose has been defined by the AKC as a "flesh" colored nose. So you are saying that if an eebb yellow has darker flesh color (liver) that it won't be DQ'd, yet the exact same genetics for the lighter colored flesh (pink) would be? Doesn't make much sense.

I suggest you take that up with your Breed Club. Greg didn't write the standard but you don't have to be Einstein to understand "A thoroughly pink nose or one lacking in any pigment is a disqualification." Your argument revolves around pretty "basic" genetics and doesn't take into account all the modifying factors. Yellows come in all shades, so do blacks and chocolates, yet their basic colour codes are similar!

In the TRUE sense of the word, the term "Dudley" originally meant a pink/non pigmented flesh. But for the most part, pet owners and breeders that I know call the No Black Pigment labs (yellows with chocolate pigment) Dudleys. In all my years I haven't seen a true PINK pigmented lab. I have seen brown that looks pinkish, but that's it.

I think using the term "Dudley" for a yellow with chocolate pigment will stick around in the general public the way "English" and "American" sticks around.

There is a big difference between a yellow with chocolate pigment and a dudley. I had a yellow boy with chocolate pigment and he had dark eye rims and lips (not black, brown) and a brownish nose. The dudleys have flesh colored eye rims, lips and noses and I have yet to see one that was what I would call pretty or handsome. The rest of their bodies were nice but the face is somewhat alarming to me. I guess because I have seen several dudleys, the Standard is very clear to me. My yellow boy was a wonderful dog that I kept, neutered, for the rest of his life. I didn't show him or breed him, just loved him.

I don't mean to belabor this, but I have seen so many folks say that their yellow/choco pigmented lab has pink lips etc, but really it is just a shade of brown.

If there truly is a PINK pigmented labrador (outside of those that might suffer from vitiligo or other immune issues that compromise melanin in the skin), is it just a mutation of the pigment so these dogs are still either EEBB through eebb with a mutated gene? Because otherwise there is no other genetic code for a pink pigmented dog.

I was told by LTB's, way back, that first of all, a true dudley nose was considered to detract from the soft, intelligent expression that a Labrador should have. Secondly, I was also told, and I don't remember if the reference was R. Wolters or H. Warwick, the dudley nose, aside from changing the expression of the Labrador, was thought to be a faulty nose for hunting, although it could not be determined at the time whether it was the dudley nose that was not as good at scenting or if some of the early dogs with dudley noses were just not good hunters.

As with anything, the standards are written, and whether we agree or not, we are supposed to breed to the standard. If we dislike something, then we need to bring it to the attention of our parent club