Just had 2nd pup from last year's litter diagnosed with OCD. It was the first time I fed and had families feed Proplan Chicken and Rice for all life stages. I've had this line for ages but never used the stud's line before. These two are the only OCD whe've ever produced.

So, tell me more about OCD. Is it truly genetic - I see a conflicting information on the web, some saying definitely genetic, others saying definitely not. Also, is it food related? Any information you know to be true is appreciated! So sad here for the sweet fur kids and our breeding program.

Could be genetic and also could be injury and could be the way the puppy grew and could be all of it.

Sorry.

When we had it we are pretty sure it was genetic. We later found out that the stud had dogs in the pedigree that were known to have it and throw it. Those dogs could be in your pups pedigree.

I had a pup I purchased develope OCD; I took her to an ortho vet for diagnosis; he told me that some dogs are prone to it, due to genetics, and that food, injury, etc. can cause it to develope. this was the first time I tried a different food ( an adult premium food ), perhaps this caused it, perhaps she would have had it despite her diet.

I think it is both. Diet and exercise are very important. A genetic predisposition is a likely contributor. Look at it this way. A super clean pedigree is eventually going to have an OCD progeny. What do you call that? I won't change my breeding habits based on an infrequent or random OCD occurence. I will ( and have ) change(d) if I get a few where there is common ancestry.

No perfect answer for this one.

I don't think it's known what causes OCD, probably a combination of things. One puppy from a large litter of mine came down with it. This puppy was sold to a breeder who chose to feed something other than my recommendations. The puppy looked over fed when I saw it and was allowed to rough house with older dogs (maybe caused by injury). No other puppies had any problems and no known OCD being thrown by dogs in the pedigree. The one puppy was the largest in the litter though so who knows.

To have 1 is bad enough but 2, my goodness. I feel for you. Had it been only 1 pup I would think either food, genetics, over excercised or environment. Being 2 puppies, I highly doubt it's food or environment unless both were in the same home.

If you haven't seen it before in your line and you're breeding for a considerable amount of time; then perhaps it is genetics coming from the stud dog or relatives. Unfortunately, there's no way to know.

I would stay away from the stud dog's line in the future with any of your girls. Maybe they don't do well together or maybe he has relatives that did or he himself produces it.

I have 1 boy in my pedigrees that I know produced it back in the day. So when I do pedigree research I make sure he's not there or if he is, he's very far back (over 7 generations). So far I've been okay. That's why pedigree research is as important as clearances if you know who possibly produced certain diseases in latter years.

I'm sad for you however talk to some specialists and breeders who were around when the back end of your pedigree was being bred for more information.

In horses many times OCD is thought to be caused by a dietary deficiency (copper specifically in horses), either by the mare when still pregnant, or the foal during growth.

There is no known cause- just several that *could* be causative factors in dogs. Could be congenital (developmental), dietary, exercise-related, weight, or genetics. Tough to know unfortunately.

To Vet Tech-Breeder, It's not tough to know two puppies from one breeding both have the same specific problem. I've never yet had OCD strike yet in a good amount of years and know breeding long enough you can see it all. I've had 2 orthopedic problems, 1 wound up poor placement . A second was ligament related and caused by the new owner admitting to major over exercise when advised by breeder and their vet not to. But I breed once a year or two and keep 4 dogs at a time average, up to 6. So I'm a small breeder for nice amount of years.

I do think this could be genetic from either or both sides. Has the OP asked the stud-dog owner if there have been breedings with the same problems without pointing their finger ? If he's used often, chances are yes but will the breeder admit to problems with certain girls? A good, honest breeder will if they're aware of it. Its worth asking with 2 in the litter so far with OCD, hopefully all there will be and no more bad news. It could be the combination of these 2 pedigrees. It's never too late to go back in those pedigrees and have a non-accusatory conversation with the stud-dog owner. JMHOFWIW.

Now this is completely different, 1 pup with food and exercise pointing to the cause.

Thanks for all the very interesting replies.

What I find interesting is, these two are the most active, started hunt training, running with older dogs, etc. AND they both are the tallest/leanest. Actually they both look "fieldy" compared to remaining pups. They are both much thinner and even "weedy" compared to remainder of litter. I don't know if that's related. They are 10 months old, one just diagnosed last week, other 1 month ago.

Another question, anyone hear of Adequan being used on dogs for OCD? I've heard it works quite well on horses.

Don't you know? It's always the stud dog's fault.

How much forced exercise in the field did they have during their rapid growing phases?

http://www.8pawsup.com/articles/labsocd.html

There are a lot of reasons for OCD. Anytime I've heard of someone's puppy being diagnosed, they've either had poor nutrition or they've been running with adults.

Don't blame the stud. Good grief!

Who is blaming the stud???

Got a question for you. You say these 10 month olds are leaner & taller. Have these dogs been spayed/neutered? It is now pretty well known that early spaying/neutering increases the incidence of orthopedic problems.

You should question the 2 pups per litter, but you should also keep in mind that a single litter never constitutes statistical certainty. Think about litters with 8 males and 1 female. If the same breeding was repeated, you would not expect the same breakdown in sexes. My point is, don't jump to conclusions, but do make some inquiries to the other dogs in the pedigree.

In horses with nutrition-related OCD it is often caused by problems with dam nutrition well before the foal is weaned so yes, in puppies if there is a nutritional problem, I would actually expect multiple puppies (not all but some) to be affected. This could stem from something WE are doing as breeders with regard to diets and supplements and so forth, not necessarily genetics.

You don't know, unless you screen (radiographically) every single puppy from each litter, that you haven't had OCD in the past. OCD puppies don't always show clinical lameness. In fact, they typically only seem to show signs of lameness in the most severe cases. We have seen several of various ages in the past couple of months where radiographic signs of OCD were picked up as an incidental finding on x-rays done for some other reason.

Just like some dogs with hip dysplasia don't end up lame for virtually their entire lives, some dogs with OCD never end up lame either.