I am not a breeder, but a long-time Labrador fan, having three over the past 23 years. All of them have been service dogs. My current dog will be 10 in July. This week, he was diagnosed by X-ray as having mild to moderate arthritis in both shoulders, with the right side being more severe. He weighs 74 pounds and is about 24 inches tall. The vet started him on Tramadol (50 mg, 2x daily) and Dasequin with MSM (2x daily as the loading dose). Aside from the arthritis, he is in good shape and receives regular vet care.

I had given him Sam’s Club glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM since the age of three, and later Arthrisoothe Gold, which contains glucosamine/chondroitin/ MSM and other ingredients. He also has received vitamin C and fish oil daily for the past two years. I did everything I could to prevent arthritis, but it was apparently not enough.

While the Tramadol is definitely addressing the pain, it does nothing for inflammation. I have heard bad things about Rimadyl, but know that the inflammation needs to be addressed. I am open to your suggestions for medications and supplements.

For your awareness, the dog does not do physically strenuous work and is walked and plays ball daily. He is a wonderful, smart, seasoned boy. My goal is to keep him happy and comfortable.

Thanks

I've had really good results with Hills Science Diet J/D food. I usually feed holistic foods, so it was hard for me to feed this food since the ingredients are not what I usually like to feed, however, the food does seem to make my girl much more comfortable. The J/D has the equivalent of 49 fish oil pills a day, so no amount of normal fish oil supplementation will give the levels of Omega 3 that J/D has.

You also may want to look into Adequan shots.

Thank you, Susan. I appreciate the response. I'll look into both.

A couple of things, I don't necessarily believe that joint supplements prevent anything, so don't have the attitude of you did everything possible but it wasn't enough. Life happens...to us and to our dogs. They age, we age, arthritis and pains kick in. It's life. As the dogs age, they need more supplements to help them. I don't use Dasaquin, I tried Cosequin way back with my elbow dysplasia dog, never really found anything that I really liked. She spent most of her years on Costco's G/C with added MSM. I find that alot of folks don't give the right dosage. you want at least 1500 mg of G, 1200 mg of C, and 1000 mg of MSM. Now folks are adding in hyalauronic acid. It seems to really work for dogs with problems. The supplement we use, and I really have come to love it is Canine Hylasport. It has all the things the dog needs above at the right amounts and Vit. C. I add fish oil too. But really look at the dosage amounts. I think you said you are doing 2X the dasaquin, but you can't really drop down to one pill a day as it won't have enough supplement in it...

You may want to look at soy as well, as in ELIMINATING it. I've read a few places that it can cause joint inflammation. It's also not good for those with thyroid issues...I am assuming this all pertains to dogs as well.

I have a senior male on Tramadol too, for back and leg issues. He can't be on any NSAID right now due to elevated liver ALT #'s. The vet won't give him any. Rimadyl has it's problems, Metacam too. Labs can be sensitive. You COULD ask your vet to do a liver panel, if the numbers are completely normal, you can try either rimadyl or metacam and then do another liver panel in a month or two to see how the body is processing it. Or you can keep the medication on hand for bad days not as an every day medication. But again, do not start until you do a liver panel first.

Adequan is an option, but it's expensive and you'll have to do a course of treatments, but everyone who'd done it has seen good results (our ED girl got it after her surgery, it helped alot). You can also consider accupuncture. We haven't yet, but our vet does it and it might be tried soon on our senior boy.

Again, this has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do. Nothing PREVENTS anything. You've got an aging 10 year old...

I would consider the J/D food. I have mine on a Metabolic food because he needs to be thinner due to his leg problem and honestly, I poo pooed all that prescription food, but I think it's appropriate when you have a dog with a need.

Good luck.

I agree with everything Jen has told you. I, too, use HylaSport Canine. I'm a convert from Dasaquin with MSM. If you want to read about it go to www.pupsup.com. It was originally developed for horses. The horse people liked it so much they ask for a dog version. Customer service there is awesome. It's reasonably priced and easy to administer, given once a day. It is in a different form - beef flavored granules. It comes in a bucket with a scoop. A 4 lb bucket will last 5 months. It might take time for your dog to get used to it. The first few days my dog had loose stools but after the first week he was back to normal. I also add fish oil - SeaPet with Vit E. I love Lazer's K9 Shine but it's expensive by the single bottle ... maybe you can get someone to go halfies with you on a case. BTW, HylaSport is poured fresh per order - don't buy more than you need.

Interesting about the canine hylasport. I'm a horse person, so I know about the equine version and have been interested in trying the canine version, but afraid to move from Dasuquin. My girl that is on the J/D food also takes Dasuquin with MSM.

Regarding the Adequan costs - if you have a vet that will allow you to give your own shots it is quite reasonable. After the initial loading doses my dog only gets a shot monthly. A vial of Adequan from Drs. Foster and Smith will run you about $50.00. I get 4 shots out of a vial, so $12.50 a month for maintenance Adequan. I give the Adequan sub-q, as I'm not comfortable giving IM shots. My vet showed me how to give the shots properly sells me the syringes and needles I need. Hope this helps.

True, but for comparison, my vet recently quoted me $44.00 per shot, 3 a week initially for a some period of time and then monthly. So if you go that route, check with your vet to see if they'll show you how to do shots (if you don't know already) and then see if they'll write the script instead. We haven't gone that route yet, but as I start bring all my dogs to my new vet, I am hoping she gets a little more flexible with what I want to buy and let it not be through her... ;)

Jen, my vet charges $50.00 per Adequan shot. The initial loading dose I followed was 2 shots per week for four weeks, then monthly after that. According to my vet, there are as many initial protocols as there are vets, but most of them fall into the range of 8 to 10 shots closely spaced, then maintenance. It would be an expensive treatment if you had to pay your vet to administer the shots, but it is quite reasonable if you can do it yourself. I have had really good results with Adequan, so it's certainly worth investigating.

Also, Long Time Lab Fan, I have personally taken the Costco glucosamine/chondroitin with MSM and then switched myself to Cosamin at a time I was having lots of trouble with my previously broken ankle. The Cosamin was much more effective. I won't go back to the Costco stuff. One reason I made the switch was to try to figure out if it was worth paying the price for Cosaquin or Dasuquin for my dogs versus buying them the cheaper stuff from Costco. As far as I'm concerned the Cosaquin and Dasuquin is worth the price, and I'll continue to use it for my dogs.

Has anyone heard of this product and its effectiveness: Immune One Joint Mobility?
http://www.immuneone.com/products/immune-one-joint-mobility/

A friend with German Shepard's has her dogs on all three products and loves the results.

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions.

I have heard great things and Hylasport and will definitely try it if the Dasequin doesn't work as hoped. Would there be any value to doing them both, either separately or concurrently? Also, are most vets familiar with Adequan? I ask because mine didn't mention it.

I will keep the Hill's in mind, too. He does well on Pro Plan ALS, but I've got to do what works.

Again, I appreciate the input.

I agree with Susan Bonner on the supplements. I have a boy with a grade 2 and 3 elbow. Another girl years ago with knee arthritis. Dasuquin MSM and Adequan are life savers. They key to all these things working is getting them in before there is no cartilage left.

Dr Chris Zink and Dr Sherman Cannap were instrumental on getting me to use these products with my animals. My vet will price match the online prices of Adequan. Roughly $50 per bottle. I give injections myself sub q.

Additionally, my elbow boy is on 4000 mg Salmon Oil a day plus Vitamin C. He gets a chiro adjustment and accupunture once a month now too.

He is still going strong doing bird work at 9. I am extremely happy with what we came up with for treatment.

Sue Puff

I would not do that without speaking to the folks at Pups Up (maker of HylaSport). The downside would be not giving either a chance to work. There is no loading dose with HylaSport. Maybe buy a 2lb container (which will last 3 months) and see if you're getting results.

Call Pupsup, they will usually send out a pound for free to try. For us the magic ingredient was the hyalauronic acid. If you stay on Dasaquin (I see no reason to give BOTH products), get a bottle of the HA and supplement that as well.

Thank you, Sue. I am doing 4000 mg. of fish oil and 1000 mg. of vitamin C every day. I am somewhat concerned with the vet's decision to give the Tramadol without addressing the inflammation. When I mentioned my misgivings about Rimadyl, he said there were newer options, like Metacam and Previcox.

Why he went with the the Tramadol alone, I'm not sure. He had an emergency surgery when my husband went to pick up the dog. He called later to check on him, but I was at work. He spoke my husband, who is not terribly dog savvy. I'll be calling today. I suspect he was trying to save me money and/or based his choice on my thoughts on Rimadyl.

I'll definately bring up the Adequan. Thanks, again.

Jen,


I forgot to mention, I am giving one capsule daily capsule of hyluronic acid (50 mg.) from Vitacost. It's only been about two weeks, though, so it may be too soon to tell if it's working. Should I increase to two capsules a day, which is the regular dose for humans?

Thanks -

I have an older girl with arthritis. We used the Dausequin, but I also ran a liver panel and found one value was off. Wouldn't dare use Rimadyl. Put her on Sam-e and Milk Thistle, used Tramadol for bad days. Two months later, liver function was normal, but the swelling was still bad and she was stiff. Used a short course of prednisone and she's up and running. Swelling has stayed down, three months now, but I will give her another course if it gets bad again.

The supplement I used has like 20-25 mg of the HA in it and that seems to be enough. I give the Hylasport that has it in it once a day. I would stick with the 50 mg. Are you dosing the right amounts for everything else?

my two 14 year old seniors are on metacam pill, 1/2 tablet a day, it seems to really help them out. blood work done every few months, all looks well. you can get it at pharmacy for 30 pills / $4.

Meloxicam (metacam)is an anti-inflammatory that should be used in conjunction with a pain pill (tramadol) and supplements. I have found that many times supplements, then pain pill will be enough so that you don't need the NSAID which requires blood work to check liver. If you need it you need it, but it wouldn't be the only thing I used.

Prednisone "can" be detrimental to a dog with liver issues. You may want to recheck liver levels to be sure she does not need to go back on the MT and SAMe.

My vet was the one that told me this and my girl was ok on recheck after pred.

Just want to mention it in case you want to dbl. check.

Also alfalfa (i give 300mg), B50 complex and vit E (200-400 iu) help support the liver. I give it daily to my girl and she has remained in normal range now for almost 3 years. It took over a year to get her levels down initially.

Sorry for the highjack.

Also here are more suggestions on natural supps for arthritis. It can take a combo of things to work and you have to give it time when using natural.

http://www.heartypet.com/blog/?p=25