If a boy puppy is going to a home that wants to get into showing, do you do a co-own? If so, what are some of the terms of the contract?

Does nobody sell males on co-owns? If anything I want to make sure the dog doesn't get used unless clearances are done. Showing is the owners main interest.

Well since only one owner of record is needed to sign a litter registration application, a co-own won't do anything there to prevent them from breeding whenever they want, to whomever they want, even before clearances are completed and or before he is over the age of two. Do you trust the person you are selling this boy to? A co own contract is only as good as the people that sign it, and if both parties trust each other, and agree to the terms, then it would be fine. If not, well we have all heard the stories.

I would only sell to someone I knew and trusted. Co-owns on potential stud dogs can be a PITA. I've sold a male prospect outright to a person I knew and trusted. Our agreement was that I could use him on my bitches free of charge, and she would consult with me before breeding him to any other bitches since my kennel name is on him. It's worked out fine for both of us.

I would be very, very careful. Like the others said. Only to someone you really know and trust. Some say they will show and never do. You would not like him used for puppy mill use.

Only do co-owns with those you trust. BUT, trust has 2 meanings here.

You have to trust the co-owner to do right by the dog.

But you may also want to have a co-owner that you trust to do things your way.

I see and have experienced situations where two very good breeders have serious disagreements due to co-owner misunderstandings. Often, it is because the breeder of the dog feels that the co-owner is not living up to the agreements. Often, that is because the new co-owner is not doing what s/he is "told to do".

Breeders often want total control. The person in possession of the dog, often does not respect the wishes of the breeder.

Do you as the breeder want to be in total control? Make that clear and put it in writing although you might have a hard time enforcing it.

Do you as the breeder trust the decisions of the co-owner but simply want them to consider your input?

Either way, you need to trust them.

I have a contract with no breeding rights until all clearances including heart are done and he is pointed, CH or CDX and no accidents before 18 months (It should have been two years, my thinking). The dog can't ever be sold to another person, a lifetime commitment, which I love and in the event he doesn't pass he is to be returned to the breeder. If he does pass and has accomplished something the female he is bred to has to have her like clearances. The chip has to always stay in the original breeders name. Any clause not adhered to is a breach of contract.

Now the breeder has every right to sue me if i don't do things right and is from another state. I would have to go to her state and court to contest the contract if i did anything wrong.

I personally LOVE this contract! Even though it's on me to do right with this contract I would have done these things anyway. It's not a problem.

If everyone adopted this type of contract the puppy mill, back yard no clearance type people people wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It will also save our Labradors to these terrible genes we are all dealing with.

I let out a dog to a breeder that I thought was a friend and she just bred the girl as a puppy, bred her to death. I have felt terrible for my little baby and there's nothing you can do except sit down and spell everything out so it doesn't happen again and just go to small claims and sue, get your judgement and lien them. They will think twice before they ignore a contract again.

And I would like to add that stud owners could also do the same with a contract that any puppy kept back by the breeder has to stay with the breeder with proof of spay or neuter before rehoming and ALL other puppies are to go to pet homes on limited registration.

Now another thing is I have done a co-own and I have to sign off so I don't know how one person can sign the papers without forging the other co-owners signature. You will need to double check this with the AKC. maybe things have changed.

This is personal and this is what I will do in the future. If you have any matches please don't use them here.
Thanks

Your idea of 18 months is a great idea. The only thing that would be of worry is the legal ramifications if the dog in your name got out caused a wreck or some other problem.

The court is easier than you think to use to file suit against those few bad people and not that expensive. The small claims amount in your state could be added to the breach of contract clause in your contract.

The best thing is not to sell to anyone you don't totally trust or know, it's not worth it.

Would anyone sell a show prospect male to someone whom you don't personally know, but who can provide personal recommendations from breeders you do know and trust?

Retain full AKC ownership until all clearances are done. Then no litters can be registered. Have a contract that spells out the terms. And get ready for problems. Chances are you will have them. Remember the guy down the street with the poodle bitch can't register lab poodle mixes with the AKC anyway. And even the guy down the street with the Labrador bitch might not care about the AKC registration.

Retain full ownership? I don't think the new owner would pay for a puppy without some proof of ownership and I doubt he would pay for clearances for the same reason. I'm only considering a co-own so he can show and to make sure he does things right if it gets to that. If I sell on limited he can't show the puppy. This new owner is a few years away from retirement and is looking for a hobby (showing), he isn't interested in breeding at all. Clearances and health of the sire and dam was his main concern when looking for a puppy. I realize if his dog does finish he may change his mind about breeding but I'm sure he will want to do it right.

How can someone register a litter by themselves if the dog is co-owned? I don't understand this.

The new owner wasn't looking for full registration from the get go. He totally understood his puppy would be sold on limited. His puppy evaluated very well and that's when the question about showing came up.

All owners of record for the dam must sign the litter registration, only one sire owner has to sign to register a litter with AKC.

Taken from
http://www.akc.org/reg/registeralitter.cfm

"To register a litter, the litter owner should complete an an AKC Litter Registration Application . The application requires basic information such as the date of birth, number of males and females born, and the registered names and numbers of the sire and dam. The application must be signed by all of the owners and co-owners of the dam and by one owner of the sire. Failure to complete the application properly will result in processing delays."

Yes, all co-owners of the dam must sign. But, my understanding is that if one refuses to sign, the other co-owner can just jump through a few hoops with the AKC and get the litter registered. This seems consistent with the fact that the AKC's primary mission is to document the lineage of the pups and the AKC does not like to get in the middle of ownership squabbles. I am not positive if any of this is true and am posting it as an inquiry. I have often wondered if this is true. The person who told me this is a long time and very successful breeder and show person. But even people of this stature don't know everything...