Got FCP in a puppy for the first time ever. For reasons I won't go into, I would like to be able to breed her. We have never had FCP in over 20 years. If anyone has bred a bitch with this, I would love to know how it turned out. Don't bother telling me about how she should never be bred. I just want to know if it has been done, what were the results? With the OFA database having so much information, I know I can find a nice boy with many generations of great elbows.

What grade?

There is no grade for FCP. They either have it or they don't.

The elbows were graded for dysplasia, no? What grade? Or did you not send them in?

Elbows can also be environmentally influenced, especially FCP.

No. I think you do not understand. In FCP, a piece or pieces break off of the end of the bone. That little piece then irritates the joint and the dog limps. This generally happens around 6 months. The pieces can be removed. The dog will never be normal, but it should have less discomfort as it ages. I know some people just let them limp. If you have a really good ortho person, there is absolutely no reason to take more x-rays and send them to the OFA. I had the pieces removed and have them in a little vial to remind me what cost me $3000. The person who did the surgery is well regarded as one of the best lapro people in the USA.

I hope someone will be please be able to answer my original question.

My understanding is getting clearer.... you have a dog that you did surgery on, didn't have the elbows formally evaluated and want someone to come forward and say "Sure I bred a dog like that and everything went dandy!" Good luck. In the meantime, I'd xray the elbows, send them in to OFA and see what they GRADE both of them. The pieces you removed aside, how is the rest of the joint?? How about the other leg?

What's your problem? Can't read? I asked, and I quote. "I just want to know if it has been done, what were the results? " FCP has been around forever. If you have half a brain, you must know these bitches have been bred in the past. I am sure it has been done. My question stands as stated.

In answer to your question - years ago I bred a bitch with one bad elbow (it was not FCP) she had four litters from four different stud dogs. I've kept several of her daughters, one out of five daughters had a bad elbow, placed her.

Bred the daughters with good elbows and had an occasion puppy come up with a bad elbow. HOWEVER I've had as many puppies come up with the occasional bad elbow from these girls above as out of my other unrelated pedigree girls that have 5 generations of good elbows behind them. So in my experience multiple generations of girls passing their OFA's still produce bad elbows and looking back, I would not have done anything different

Not a bitch but I had a dog who had been rated grade III due to FCP in both elbows. This was before elbow clearances were being done on a regular basis. Most dogs did not have them yet, and I was being forward thinking in getting them done. I was shocked as the dog did not limp at all and was quite active. I was new to breeding and after talking to others was advised to ignore OFA since at that time elbow clearances were considered even controversal. He was not used a lot but he did sire about 6 or 7 litters. As far as I know he did not produce it. He did eventually develope arthritis in his elbows as a senior. I will say though, if it was now and knowing what I know now about ED he would have been neutered and placed in a pet home.

That is not true, they are most certainly graded due to FCP.

To any potential progeny who may have to suffer with bad elbows. Nor is it fair to the poor pet owners who have to watch their beloved dogs suffer and unwittingly paid for an animal with a major health problem. Why take the chance in breeding a dog who's not perfectly sound? I wouldn't want someone to sell me a dog with potential elbow problems. Would you?

There have to be more sound dogs that you could breed instead.

If you go ahead and breed her, be sure to give a vitamin C, glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement to pups and have families give it until they are at least 18 months old- Swanson has a nice liquid combo. Be careful, some have extra calcium from other companies.

I think there is a lot more environmental influence with joint issues than most realize. I have had a terribly bad experience which shows this. About 3 years ago I switched to a 32% protein food which I fed my own pups and some pups in training. I also had just finished building some large exercise areas. Well I had 3 of my own pups, different lines and 2 pups of field type dogs in training all raised with the high protein, extreme exercise, these 5 got OCD - so 4 unrelated lines! I'm convinced it's environmental. Needless to say, after that we supplemented and we reduced protein and exercise. 'Only' 2 of the unrelated pups had surgery and did well, the rest healed with above supplements and are doing great. Since then we've decreased protein and exercise and supplement with the vitamin C, Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM and haven't had another joint issue. What a terrible way to learn!!

All the best, whatever you decide to do!

I had a bitch that was not diagnosed with FCP but she did have it we learned later on. She was bred twice and with each litter she produced it with one pup that we know of. If any of the pets got it we were not informed. With each litter we used a different stud dog. I also believe that her father ended up with some issues when he got older. This all took place just as elbows where starting to be looked at.

What happens when a dog gets older shouldn't be in consideration, since I have a fully OFA cleared male passed it all, now with HD in hips, arthritis in elbows and hips. Time is hard on our dogs.

ED is most influenced by environment. I think we can hurt our pups by not thinking about the activity they participate in though I would never want to restrict them from being dogs. Our ortho who did our FCP surgery 10 some years ago swore by not giving dogs more than 24% protein.

I have a nice male with excellent hips and a grade I elbow. Ortho saw the "shadow" but didn't deem it a problem but told me OFA would ding it and they did. I know for a fact that it's an injury due to horseplay, and I allowed him to be used for stud.

I think we need to be aware and careful of what results we get from testing. But I would not limit the dogs I use 100% based soley on clearances. Two "Perfect" dogs could still produce a while litter of problems. If the good history is behind your bitch and your future stud I don't see a reason why not to try. I might not sell this litter for top price, just average/recoup expenses pricing. I don't guarantee elbows anyway because a pet family that lets their pup fly off the stairs or out of their SUV one too many times can cause ED too, and I can't prove it, so I am not going to guarantee for elbows.

Good luck with your decision. You KNOW some will crucify you but most folks have done it themselves.

I have a stud that has produced over 300 puppies. He has 1 good elbow and 1 bad elbow, OFA ED grade 3 with FCP, Hips excellent, and everything clear as far as I can see on the OFA website. I have only bred him to bitches that have clean lines in all joints. None of his offspring or grands has bad elbow. I'm dealing with one great-grandson puppy now that has FCP. My experience with bad elbows is that, what ever is causing the dysplasia, it can be bred out if bred to a clean line. You are still going to get bad elbows, but you probably would anyways if she had good elbows. Be careful you don't double of bad joints even if it is a different joint. Good luck!

Wow! We should all follow like lemmings jumping off a cliff and be just like the "top notch Potomac winning, breeders (of multiBISS dogs)" health and ethics be damned. Gosh it's such a shame to wash out a dog that has *almost* all their clearances. Oh right, and money, it costs a lot of money to wash out a dog you bred or bought, that has bad elbows TVD or a non passing CERF or whatever. I know, let's just not do any clearances at all! I have spent too much time money and oh heavens the dog is almost finished, I have to breed him/her!!!

So breeder 28475993265658439, are you saying that everyone who claims their dog had an injury is lying?
I have a boy whose pre-lims were rated excellent by OFA. He took a bad spill while trying to leap over one of my other dogs and landed on his right hip. Final OFAs came back fair with his right hip being the one that wasn't up to snuff. Coincidence? I don't think so.

"I am not talking about letting youngsters hoon all day and body slam each other or play with older puppies " This is exactly what I stupidly did allow the group to do at the time.

Thanks to everyone who responded with your experiences. You have given me lots of information to think about. There are things that I heard before and now am taking much more seriously. Breeding is not easy or cut and dried. There is a lot to take into consideration and I appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts and stories with me.

from vetbook
"Fragmented coronoid process (loose processus coronoideus) is a common genetic disease of the coronoid process of the canine elbow resulting in elbow dysplasia, osteoarthritis and lameness .
This condition is usually associated with severe elbow incongruity and characterized by a distracted coronoid fragment abrading the adjacent humeral cartilage, causing arthritis and pain ."

↑ Phillipe Duponant
↑ Temwichitr J et al (2010) Fragmented coronoid process in the dog: a heritable disease. Vet J 185(2):123-129
↑ Samoy Y et al (2012) Arthroscopic Findings in 32 Joints Affected by Severe Elbow Incongruity with Concomitant Fragmented Medial Coronoid Process. Vet Surg Mar 5


I have not bred a dog with FCP but I can share with you that a dog who has a littermate diagnosed with FCP is more likely to produce puppies with FCP. That's why knowing about litter mates is so important.

This is very different from breeding a Grade 1 elbow. Many breeders will breed a grade 1 elbow if the OFA report does not also indicate the findings of FCP, OCD or UAP. Not saying this is right or wrong...