I've been going to a new repro vet , they prefer checking several progesterone tests to see a jump of at least a few points to get above 5, however the cost for these is $115 each. On all my years I have never missed by waiting till my girls were above 5 and then breeding accordingly . Now with this new vet I'm looking at 3-4 tests at a minimum, my last breeding they wanted me in every day because they wanted to see a big rise, I ended up with 4 progesterone tests then and I felt 2 of them were unnecessary whereas before I'd do 3 at the most.
My girl was 0.6 on Thursday , normally I'd skip till Monday and test then( we get same day results M-F) they want me back to check on Saturday even though we don't get the results till monday morning. My girl is not flagging and she is still very firm , my very experienced accurate males could also care less.
Would you just skip the Sat test and just wait til Monday ?

I would absolutely wait until Monday. It's not like you will be able to get semen on Monday anyway.
Better yet, have someone teach you how to pull blood and run your own in house tests with Camelot Farms.

If you use a repro vet, listen to their advice or do it yourself and see how well you do on your own. Many vets overcharge for Progesterone Levels. Some are over $150 each test. Blame them f8or that but don't screw up your breeding by not testing until 5.0. Ovulation is 8ng-ml.

Wait until Monday, it's your girl and most importantly, your money, no reason to test today. The repo vet we used actually would wait until Tuesday.

At .6 I would absolutely wait until Monday! Of course your vet wants you in every day or every other day - it's $ to them. Once my girls are 3+ then I do test every other day to make sure they don't stall. Figure you usually have 4 days after they hit 2 to breed anyway.

[/quote] Most stud dog owners worth their weight in salt won't ship until a bitch reaches a 5 for a breeding 48 hours later and after. Bitches ovulate between 5 & 10 ng per ml not at a 4.2. Being cheap can cost you a litter or cause a small litter or singleton. [/quote]
I'm not sure you understood my question , and confused where you got the 4.2. I'm not looking to ship on Monday , I'm wanting to wait to retest the progesterone until Monday as I don't think my girl is even close today and it seems a waste testing for the repro vets benefit of seeing that " jump" in numbers not mine, I wait until my girls go over 5 before having semen shipped.
I looked back at last years with this same vet I ended up doing 5 tests , I still wasn't going to have anything shipped til over 5 just THEY wanted to see the numbers in between. This just seems costly to me considering I have never missed doing it my way in over 20 years. I tend to breed later anyways , this bitch last year with the old repro vet we only tested twice , she was at 0.4 so we waited 3 days and checked it then, then bred her 3 days after that ,she had 8 puppies.
I ended up canceling my appt for today , IMO it just seems frivolous to test when she's indicating shes not ready and only going to come back in the 1 or 2's.
I have other friends that use this same repro vet and were told to test almost daily, one friend tested 6 times on her bitch!
Is anyone else noticing this as well?

I have noticed that I am taking too many tests because of my own anxiety and not because of my vet. I suspect your vet does not want to tell you to skip a test and then have it be too late. It is likely a combination of wanting to be safe and knowing s/he is making money on every test.

Many bitches do stall at 4.5 (I know this is not the main discussion) but most do not. Sometimes I do think stud owners are too picky waiting for that one over 5, especially as a weekend or holiday comes near (and it always seems to). That said, many people don't want to take that one last test to confirm the rise and that is being penny wise and pound foolish.

Read article by Diane Sullivan in the latest installment of LQ!

She says wait much longer than all you have mentioned. A lot of us are breeding too early, according to her. It was a very well written, very detailed article. I learned so much.

I'm so glad I decided to skip the test on saturday and wait to retest again today, I went with my instincts,my bitches physical behavior(still very firm and not flagging) and my males as well,they are not indicating she is ready and the Progesterone Test today confirmed it, she's only at 1.9 this afternoon.
I've always waited 2-3 days after 5 to breed. I remember I did only one test on a bitch I was breeding at home that came back 19.5,the vet at the time said "Oh you missed her" ,I bred her that day,my girl had 8 puppies

How early to start testing...when to test every other day as opposed to testing the next day or waiting 3 or 4...are all good questions and using traditional methods (the only things the old timers had to go by) like behavior, physical appearance, etc. usually work well, especially with a bitch you know well.

As far as when to breed, we all have to remember that after ovulation (5 - 10) the numbers do not mean much. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that every bitch is different in how fast they spike and that it is the # of days after ovulation that matters and not the progesterone #.

Many "old time" breeders spent many years trying to figure out ovulation time without progesterone testing. If the bitch was/is with the stud dog, that decision was/is easier to make. But in the days before progesterone testing and shipping semen, we routinely did 3 breedings in order to cover the bitch for a longer time. Also, since the breedings were natural, the sperm would live much longer. It was not uncommon to do a breeding every other day from the time the bitch would stand and the stud was interested until one or the other said time is up.

Now-a-days, if a bitch follows the textbook, and if weekends/holidays/snow on planes/etc. all fall into place, we only need 1 breeding which is more toward when we would do a 2nd or 3rd breeding in the old days. I think the key is that we are finding that shipped semen does not live as long inside the bitch as we previously had thought.

That all said, in some lines, bitches do ovulate early, eggs seem to be viable quicker after ovulation and stay viable for a shorter time. In these lines, you do still need to breed early. With natural breedings, you could error early because you knew the sperm would last a long time.

I think sometimes we trust the technology too much. There is still error in every judgment we make so that is why I still like to do two breedings even with progesterone testing (especially with shipped semen). The concept of having her covered for as long a period as is reasonable still makes sense. If I see a weekend coming up and she is approaching 5, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to get a shipment before the weekend even if that means needing two more the following week because we jumped the gun. I don't mind paying a little extra and do appreciate the stud owners who put out that extra effort when possible.

No LQ

labbylover777

Read article by Diane Sullivan in the latest installment of LQ!

She says wait much longer than all you have mentioned. A lot of us are breeding too early, according to her. It was a very well written, very detailed article. I learned so much.

I didn't read it but agree completely. Girls hit a 5.0 and it's time to breed immediately for some. 30 and 40 year breeders are wondering why o why they missed again. Each bitch is different and ovulation can be as late as a 10. I don't like my costs either but I spend as needed. This sounds the same as a few that have said they can't afford an echo Doppler on their girls. Not until they get hit with TVD with an affected bitch and no pedigree research.