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Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Grain or Grain Free for a 9 week old pup? I

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Feed what the breeder recommends.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

First off.. if you trusted the breeder enough to buy your puppy from, you should at the very least for the first six months trust they know what food has worked in their lines.

Grain or grain free is marketing. Each contain starch. Why. To bind the kibble. How much is the important fact. Other then the breast milk pups will never have a nutritional requirement for carbs. Once weaned they can live long healthy lives on just fat and proteins. But when cooked and turned to starch the carbs can be digested by the pup or dog. Most dog foods in the form of kibble have over 50 % carbs. Reason is cost. Kibble also plays a roll because it must have the binder. Diets with the least carbs like EVO will have a lot of fines(powder) at the bottom of the bag.

Dogs evolved from the wolf to be able to digest cooked grains, legumes, tubers, and other plant and vegetable matter. Typically if you do your research, your pup or dog will be at its best when 1/3 of the diet is fat, 1/3, protein, and the carbs and mineral vitamin and moisture content the final 1/3. These are just percentages to try to stay close to. When you see a diet with 30 % protein, one expects to see fat at the 18-20 % range. Reason for not more fat is the kibble. Too much fat and you get a greasy fat soaked kibble once open to the air will go rancid. Fat is very important for dogs and especially pups. The dogs digestive tract is very short, so digestion must be fast. Unlike humans with over twenty feet of intestine, the dog has three feet at full growth. That in itself means RAW Plant matter will not be broken down for utilization. But if cooked it is utilized. Kibble also grinds up plant matter before cooking allowing smaller particles of the food to be absorbed by the gut.

Now lets get back to raising a pup. Grain free, RAW , Grain inclusive, or home cooked will work. The problem is balance. The vitamin/ mineral package in a diet has to be just right. That is why just jumping into RAW with no knowledge of how to balance the diet is risky. So many great Puppy/ All Life Stage diets are on the market. All balanced and complete.

Look at Fromm Puppy Gold / Pink bag. Read the PDF, ingredient panels and your pup will grow slow, full of life and energy, with just the right balance of Vitamins and minerals. All you must do is then keep the pup at a perfect weight by feeling the rib cage daily. Lightly feel the ribs and not be able to see them is where you want the pups condition to be.

Fromm Puppy Gold can be fed to any pup and adult dog for life. Any breed dog also. It may cost more, but you are absolutely feeding the best puppy food made today. Ingredients, family owned, do their own manufacturing, and never had a recall. In business for over 100 years.

If you are totally hung up on using Grain Free the Fromm Surf and Turf is as good as it gets. It also is an ALS food. Both Surf and Turf and Pink Bag Gold puppy have been subjected to feed trials proving they work and are balanced.

If you are in want of feeding Home Cooked or RAW, first get Dr. Pitcairn's book, Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs and cats as a jump off start.

No diet is best for every dog. And why breeders recommend what they have been feeding. It has been working for them. Many times due to cost of feeding multiple dogs, pricing is a major factor in their choice. Most puppy buyers fall in love quickly with their pups and want the very best food for their only dog. In doing so digestive upset occurs, so stick with what the breeder has been using for at least the first six months.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Wysong Epigen is a starch-free kibble.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

umm
Wysong Epigen is a starch-free kibble.


Yes.. but has Wysong subjected his Epigen to feed trials ? No.

Reason he has not is because it will fail, especially in a pup or a senior dog.

The other important thing to remember is that kibble has had almost all moisture removed. If the pup or senior dog does not ingest enough water he will have kidney failure.

I for one would never suggest those protein levels in kibble form for pup. RAW would provide a much healthier diet then Epigen.

Seeing dogs are not wolves they do very well on cooked plant and vegetable matter, if kept between 30 and 50 %. When it gets over 50 % the dog can then be subjected to health issues like obesity and diabetes. The dog suffers as we humans do in todays world by eating too many carbs.

Epigen should only be fed to adult dogs of young age that need to lose weight in my opinion. Dr. Wysong may disagree, but he has ZERO proof his Epigen will not harm a pup or senior dog.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Feed what your breeder is feeding. Fromm is carb heavy and a lot of the formulas are loaded with peas. If it's a dog that you plan on breeding stay away from peas.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

I feed grain free because I like to feed less volume for the same calorie consumption. Which means less poop to clean up. :)
Not all grain free diets are equal and not all grain free diets are approved for puppies.
Please do your research and talk to your breeder. Your breeder has picked a food that works well for their dogs. I am sure they will be happy to discuss food options with you.
Also keep in mind that if you should choose to change your puppy's food allow for an easy transition by gradually mixing the new food in. A growing puppy's body is already under enough stress no need to add more by switching foods abruptly.
Best of luck with your new puppy

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

foodie too
Feed what your breeder is feeding. Fromm is carb heavy and a lot of the formulas are loaded with peas. If it's a dog that you plan on breeding stay away from peas.


Do you have any references or links for the Pea info?

Thanks.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Fromm lover
First off.. if you trusted the breeder enough to buy your puppy from, you should at the very least for the first six months trust they know what food has worked in their lines.
Dogs evolved from the wolf to be able to digest cooked grains, legumes, tubers, and other plant and vegetable matter. Typically if you do your research, your pup or dog will be at its best when 1/3 of the diet is fat, 1/3, protein, and the carbs and mineral vitamin and moisture content the final 1/3. These are just percentages to try to stay close to. When you see a diet with 30 % protein, one expects to see fat at the 18-20 % range. Reason for not more fat is the kibble. Too much fat and you get a greasy fat soaked kibble once open to the air will go rancid. Fat is very important for dogs and especially pups. The dogs digestive tract is very short, so digestion must be fast. Unlike humans with over twenty feet of intestine, the dog has three feet at full growth. That in itself means RAW Plant matter will not be broken down for utilization. But if cooked it is utilized.

No diet is best for every dog. And why breeders recommend what they have been feeding. It has been working for them. Many times due to cost of feeding multiple dogs, pricing is a major factor in their choice. Most puppy buyers fall in love quickly with their pups and want the very best food for their only dog. In doing so digestive upset occurs, so stick with what the breeder has been using for at least the first six months.


While I agree with some of your post, I have to point out that you are incorrect about a dog's intestinal length. Since we are talking about feeding Labradors, an adult's intestine is approximately 18 feet long; much longer when relaxed as in a necropsy.
This will have an effect on digestion.

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Funny I feed Proplan puppy small normal stools. Had several bags of grain free food given to us at work pup dogs on it. Huge volumes of stool and gas. Put back on proplan 2 stools a day and no more gas???

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Wag The Dog
Fromm lover
First off.. if you trusted the breeder enough to buy your puppy from, you should at the very least for the first six months trust they know what food has worked in their lines.
Dogs evolved from the wolf to be able to digest cooked grains, legumes, tubers, and other plant and vegetable matter. Typically if you do your research, your pup or dog will be at its best when 1/3 of the diet is fat, 1/3, protein, and the carbs and mineral vitamin and moisture content the final 1/3. These are just percentages to try to stay close to. When you see a diet with 30 % protein, one expects to see fat at the 18-20 % range. Reason for not more fat is the kibble. Too much fat and you get a greasy fat soaked kibble once open to the air will go rancid. Fat is very important for dogs and especially pups. The dogs digestive tract is very short, so digestion must be fast. Unlike humans with over twenty feet of intestine, the dog has three feet at full growth. That in itself means RAW Plant matter will not be broken down for utilization. But if cooked it is utilized.

No diet is best for every dog. And why breeders recommend what they have been feeding. It has been working for them. Many times due to cost of feeding multiple dogs, pricing is a major factor in their choice. Most puppy buyers fall in love quickly with their pups and want the very best food for their only dog. In doing so digestive upset occurs, so stick with what the breeder has been using for at least the first six months.


While I agree with some of your post, I have to point out that you are incorrect about a dog's intestinal length. Since we are talking about feeding Labradors, an adult's intestine is approximately 18 feet long; much longer when relaxed as in a necropsy.
This will have an effect on digestion.


Sorry for being vague with the lengths, as I obviously was taking about a 9 week Lab pup the OP brought up ..LOL. All dogs will have varying lengths because of the size as adults. Many times you will see the 2 and 1/2 times the dogs adult body length mentioned. More importantly is the length of the small intestine where most absorption of nutrients takes place.

The important thing for puppy owners is to understand these are baby dogs and their digestive system is still growing, just like their entire body. If one fools around changing food from which the pup was weaned to, upset will occur and nutrients will not be absorbed.

Listen to your breeder !!! Feed what they tell you to feed.

Amen

Re: Raw/Grain/Grain Free

Gluten Free for sure